Katie- Not really. Like Lord of the Flies, I felt that there was too much description and too many long paragraphs. It wasn't bad, but It wasn't my favorite.
Class- In my history class, we have been talking about communism. Do you think that the government in Fahrenheit 451 has become communistic, or has society created this future on its own? (Also; on page 154 the text hints that the constitution may have been burned).
Katie- I did like the book. One thing that I can't stop thnking about is how similar the society is to ours when you think about and get right done to the bone of the society.
Class- In response to Mellisa's first question: I think that the reason that Montag thought that Clarrise was there before him was because of how much alike their ways of thinking was. You never know, maybe Montag is thinking that Clarrise had to go through the same things that he did to get to where they both ended up.
Alex i think that the government is communist in this book although it doesn't say exactly i believe that something happen which brought this country into communism
Katie- I think the impact that it left with me was that you need to keep thinking and wondering and reading, or else what can happen? I mean, when they "think" it's about trite, trivial things. That's how it is for many people these days, as sad as it is.
Alex- I don't think that the government is important enough in the average person's life that they could be considered much of anything. It seems like the only thing the government does is go to war and punish the people who stand out and disrupt society. The society has created itself, I don't think it was all the government's fault.
Aliisa- Do you really think its about the future. I beleive that it is now, so it would have been the future then. Like Ryan just said the similarites in the society are very scary.
Alex- I don't think that the government is communist, but more of an extreme communism. It has some communist ideas, with the government trying to control everything. I also think that the government is way more extreme then communism we see today. The government completely controls everything, and people have very little free choice.
Kate- So just because the war was mentioned a lot, were you not as suprised that they were blown up? Do you think that the author kind of foreshadowed?
Emily- Wow how couldnt you like this book? I could see how LoF could be diliked but not 451. I personally felt that this was a great book. So what made u dislike this reading?
Kate- Yes I agree with you about the war. It was commented on a lot throughout the book, especially in the last sections. In some ways I think that the war should have been something that we should have expected more then we did.
Alex- I think that this government may be a little bit communistic, but it's really more just a "go for it, do whatever the heck you feel like" philosophy.
Janie- I thought there was a lack of sadness... I felt that they viewed it as more of an opportunity and I don't know if that is right even if they were cast out from society.
Alex- I do think that their government has become communist. I'm sure they did take away the Constitution, because it expressed freedom and that is exactly what people in Guy's time don't have: the freedom to think
Katie- Yes I see that now. I do not believe we are in that awful of a place right now, but rather its a warning. I suppose i am naive and prefer to disreguard these things.
Katie- I agree with it being about the world we live in today, and it's scary to think that Bradbury predicted this before televisions were entirely in color. He is predicting that the walls of a house are interactive, and Arapahoe has many smartboards that accomplish that task today.
Allie I think that the government is communist but the society doesnt know what is going on The government just "feeds" the society what they want the society to know.
yes the ending was very disapointing when its just killing us. I would have thought that the war was somewhere elseand IT WOULD HAVE BEEN SOMEONE ELSES FAMILY, but it would come around sooner or later.
Class- I love the point Kailee just brought up about the fire being warming in the end. It really showed a change in Guy from the first paragraph when he talked about loving fire.
Janie- I made this connection at the beginning of the book, but i believe Clarisse's "role" in this book was to prmpt Montag and make him question things- like the witches in Macbeth. However, Clarisse had good intent.
Janie- I didn't think that clarisse was actually dead. But yes, I thought it was interesting that someone thatcwas dead could have such an impact on someone.I think that it was that she died that made the bigge.st impact in the story
Janie- Yes, I think Clarisse is dead. In the novel, I believe her main purpose is to initiate the critical thinking process in Guy, as well as his craving for knowledge and understanding.
Britni- I agree that the government is communistic, but I think it is a modernized version of it. The common people at this time are so easily manipulated by the material that reaches them on tv that it makes the task of reaching social "equality" more feasible.
Class- In this book there were many similarities to the way that our society is compared to the society that was in the book. However, there were many things in that society that do not go on in our society today. Do you think that some of these things might happen and just give this book more validity to the way our world is today?
Class- Did you like the ideas about books? I enjoyed how Bradbury said that books "...stitched the patches of the universe together into one garment..." and that "They show the pores in the face of life." I thought that was very true.
Aliisa- I think that it's interesting that you related Clarisse to the witches from Macbeth. They did serve kind of the same purpose, and they were both outcasted and misunderstood.
Janie- I don't think it's odd that Clarrise never came back because she was the spark. What I mean by spark is that she was the one thing that got Guy thinking about everything not just what the government wanted them to think about. Whether or not she died is a very good question because if she was caught then she is definately dead.
Janie- Well like what Aliisa said i think that Clarisse was just there to put the idea in Guys head. I think that she was put in the book just to do that. After Guy started o quesion things than Clarisse had nothing left to do so the author took her out. Clarisse was replaced by Faber then buy the rest of the group.
Michelle- I think even with the things that are not similar the things that are already show how much this book apllies. The similarites are already freaky enough without more happening.
Emily- I think that the government is much more involved in people's lives than just stopping people from swimming against the flow. The reason that we arrive at that conclusion is because the government in the society runs the people subtly, not in an open Democratic state like ours. This means that because Montag was challenging the system, his perspective of the government was only that of the section that was trying to stop him.
Kyler Clarisse was a smart girl and there was other smart people pushed aside and so maybe clarisse went across the tracks and met a group of friends if she was still alive. She could have been part of that book society.
Janie I think the cops did this because first they didnt want the society to get worried and second i think they did this because they didnt want to admit that the lost
Janie- I also wondered about that. I believe that the government did that to show that they were not weak, and to insure the people they were safe. Since the people want life to be exciting if the chase went on it would not be exciting any more.
Janie- I think that the whole point of this was to make people reassured and happy, the governments ultimate goal. Because no one actually saw this guy, no one can tell that's not Montag, and no one would think to wonder.
Katie- I totally agree with that statement but still I wonder, even with this book being given to the public the way it is, do you think that maybe our world will/would continue to be more and more like this book?
Kyler- I think that it's partially both. Because Clarisse was so free thinking, there is a strong possibility that she had been ther before. Also, it may be that Montag just wanted her to be there. like yesterday, I went the the mall wih my friend and my mom. I realized toward the end of the trip that I had lost a little wooden token that's always in my pocket, which had little monetary value, but huge sentimental value. My mom told me to think about some little kid finding it and it making them smile. I didn't like that thought. It was MY bear. I liked to think about it as being mine, just like Montag liked thinking about Clarisse being there at one point.
michelle I think there needed to be some sort of large action like the bomb but I dont know if he should have killed the entire city. But then again I think I get why he did it.
Janie- I think this would be very typical of the futuristic society in the novel. The government wants people to be happy, and if they fail to kill a "fugitive", in this case Guy, people may be potentially unhappy.
Bailey- I think it is very hard to prevent it because a lot of it has already happened. We can only ensure that it does not continue by fostering a new generation that is not fully dependent on technology like we are becoming.
Michelle- Yes i think that this change is inevitable. In History we have been learning about the 20's and how history repeats its self and i see that happening here.
Bailey- That's a very good question. The only way I can think of preventing the same thing happening in our society is for the government and government type organizations like school districts t stop trying to control what we see or hear. How many times has the school tried to conceal something that they aren't proud of?
Kyler- But with all the talk and anticipation that was handed to the reader about a war about to occur in this book, don't you kind of think that this is the way that is would logically end? While reading about the war in this book did you ever think that this would be the way that this book would end?
Ruthie- I think he was desperate. He had a good feeling, but then again he had very little other choice than to trust him. I do not believe he could've gotten thi far alone.
Aliisa- I'm not really sure if we can predict the future of this society. Do we know enough about it really figure it out? Are there enough people who know how to "read" that it can go back?
Bailey- I think that one of the major ways that we can prevent our society from becoming one like that of Fahrenheit 451 is by not depending on tv or news broadcasts for information. Even in today's world, you can usually gain some information about major events from the news, but many times third person websites and reviews are better than the news, because then you can gather information from people who specialize in the fields of the news. If these sources are removed, then the news stations, and ultimately the government are in control of what the people know.
Bailey- I agree with you. I think that after we make mistakes, the most important thing that we can do is realize that we have made those mistakes and then, if nothing at all, at least learn something from them.
janie This was stupid. Men in Black has all the top students from military school shooting what they saw and what they thought was bad. It's like that no one wants to be attacked while the people are doing their regular activites. What did that guy do to deserve this?
Bailey- I know what you are saying but we as humans are a selfish race and it is true you learn from mistakes but we are stubborn and we refuse to let others tell us what is right and wrong.
Aliisa- On page 163, Granger talks about a phoenix. The phoenix has a never-ending life-cycle which begins again every few hundred years. In the same way I think that very slowly society will begin again with the help of the intellectuals.
Ruthie- Montag saw the look of Granger and knew that he could be trusted. I was not surprised that he knew his name, considering Montag was all over the news.
Allie- I agree its very hard to say. People need a leader. Many people are afraid to think on their own, so it depends whether they want to follow witht heir old society (humans dislike change), or if they realize their flaws. And by your thought of not enough peole being able to read, is it just read? Or think independently also.
Danny- I completely agree. I think we need to acknowledge the fact that we are becoming too dependent on technology and change so that we still use technology, but are not entirely dependent on it.
Bailey I agree with Danny. We will be ok as long as we dont start depending on technology. This reminds me of Walle because the humans were doing just fine until they started to depends on technology then they turned out fat and couldnt even walk.
Class- It seemed to me that at the end Montag started thinking more and more about Mildred. Do you think that since he knows that she is gone forever, he realizes what he missed?
I agree with both Katie and Aliisa- I think that Montag was desperate and his choice to go with Granger might have ended well but it might not have, with nothing to lose, Montag was willing to take that chance.I also like what Katie said about Clarisse, she was familiar to him and in a way she was kind of a role model to him.
Katie- I agree that humans are stubborn, but I also think that humans are also afraid of change. Guy may have been pondering about challenging the system, but he had never seen anybody make this change before. After he met Clarisse, he saw that someone else had changed, and that was what finally made him start to rebel. After Clarisse, he continued to think and take chances to a point. It took Faber coming into his life to influence him to take it to the next level.
Britni- We are already dependent on technology. I think the main thing is to keep thinking. Keep relying on science and discovery and philosophy. Keep the average human questioning the world around him, and keep society changing. Humans have proved how helpful and useful and good technology is and can be.
bailey I think its not a question of can we learn because we can learn there is no question there but I think it is a question of do we choose to learn.
Danny- do you really think that humans are afraid of change? Numerous countries revolt and have revolutions. We expand in science and technology and trade and business and communications and medicine every day. I think that humans fear the unknown. When we make new things, we know what they do and what will happen. We are scared about not knowing.
Class- On page 164, Granger talks about "burying war and covering it up". Do you think that along with all of the ideas and predictions Ray Bradbury entwined into the novel, there was also an anti-war feeling?
Allie- Of this i am unsure, like you said we do not know enough about this society. When the city was blown up Montag remebered where he met Millie, was this coincidence? Like if the bomb destroyed some source of forgetfullness in the humans. Maybe if this is the case other people will "remember how to read".
Alex- I don't think that there really was any anti-war feeling before the war at all. The war was supposed to be fast, and everyone thought it wouldn't effect them. So, I think there was no pro or anti war, the war was just going to happen and people didn't really care.
Ruthie- I think that Bradbury is showing what can happen because of cumulative human failure. The government has tried to exercise complete control over people, but they have failed because the human mind can't be controlled indefinetly, and people like Clarisse and Montag have begun to think, which is counter productive of the government goals.
Alex- I think that Bradbury was warning us agaisnt starting so many wars and that we shouldn't or it could get us into a lot of trouble.So yes, in a way I think that there is a hint of anti- war thrown into this book.
Alex- Now that you mention that I do think that. Especially in the way that he ended the book with it and it was so abrupt and sudden. I don't think that he himself liked war at all.
Kate- I did some research and i found that salamanders need to live near water which i found hypocritical. But i think he chose the salamander to show that there might be hope for the salamanders to go back to the good or the water.
Class- Do you think that it is possible for people to learn how to really read and process things, or are they doomed to stay ingorant for the rest of time?
Ruthie- Going along with what you said, do you think the city was symbolic? Like in the end war will destroy you and everything? Because the entire setting of the book revolves around this city.
Allie- I do not think that they are doomed to stay ignorant. They have all the people who were defying the laws by keeping books. These people along with all the people who were on the railroad tracks are able to teach those who don't know. So, I think that they will eventually learn, but it may take a while.
Allie- in their society? Honestly, I don't think that the people in Montag's old city will ever overcome their utter dependency on their technology and things. I think it's possible that other cities could overcome this, or the fugitives like Montag could make a new society with the knowledge that they have stored.
Alex- Do you think that all of the wars even had any significance? There was a lot of wars in this book. One was even 48 hours. I mean, how much of a war can you have in two days?
Katie- I think that in this case history is repeating itself in a more modern form. At the time Ray Bradbury wrote the book, the majority of American feelings were anti-communistic. I wonder is he saw in a way parrallel pre communistic ideas between the Soviet Union and the U.S., and attributed the rise of technology to America's downfall.
Allie- No, the first humans had to find a way to understand and comprehend things. Over time I believe the human race began to abuse knowledge, and technology, and slowly began to regress, rather than expand upon their knowledge. In saying this, I think that similar to the phoenix the cycle will begin again.
Aliisa-I think that the city was in a way symbolic but in a different way than you said. I think that the city collapsing was symbolism for that way of government collapsing or that way of thinking disapearing.Something like starting over again.
Allie- Well in that case, I think that our society is safe for now because we do have some brains but as for the people in the book, they can't start worrying about understanding the books just yet. They have to focus on making them legal first and that in itself is one of the biggest struggles of all.
kate- Do you think that this book was writin out of anger for that reason and only for that reason. I do not think so. I think that this book was writin for many reasons and one of those reasons is to warn us of how harmful the future can be if we do not handle ourselves well in the present.
Britni- In today's world it is possible to have a 30 minute war. This is a scary thought, but America alone has enough nuclear weapons to destroy the entire world 34 times over. I also have to say that the best laid plans can turn into chaos on the battlefield.
Kate- I think it could also represent the way the people do not interact much anymore. Maybe there was misunderstanding between countries because of lack of interaction. Also it could be to prove ones power. Like you said for pointless reasons I am guessing.
Katie- Yes! That is one of the themes you can take away from this book. 50 years ago, Bradbury made this predictions that have come true today. This is truly saying something about our society. Look at World War Two. Hitler was killing people because he saw them as "inferior." America swore that we would never let that happen again. Today, people are still getting killed because they are different. Our world is caught up in a circle of repeating themselves over and over again.
Kate- I think that this society found that they were able to declare war and when you find tat you have access to something you usualy go over board with it.
Bailey- In the novel, the wars are atomic. If we look back on history the atomic bombing of Japan marked the end of World War II in the Pacific. I think Bradbury wants to highlight how much of an impact wars of the future will have, and speak out against them.
Janie- I think you could argue that all war is pointless. No one gains from war. Everyone experiences casualities, loss of life, for gaining what? Land? Oil? More citizens? increase taxes?
Janie- About your question about pointless wars. I don't know if you could call any war "pointless", because at least one of the sides fighting believe that they are fighting for a cause. I think some wars are "avoidable", but not really pointless.
Kate and Britni- More on the salamander. I went to sparknotes... and found that the salamander was used because 'of ancient beliefs that it lives in fire and is unaffected by flames'.
Ryan- I think that the hound was there to show the brutal side of technology. The interactive walls of the homes in this world were the technology that was helpful to humans. These hounds are machines that are perfectly obedient, and will kill without hesitation. Since a hound is also such a relatively small creature, it shows just how destructive humans can be. It also represents the instinctive nature that all humans have, and that is to kill for survival.
Kate- I think that he made the city constantly be in war because it showed their social problems, and attempted solutions. The only attempted solution seen are burning and war. Do you think that those methods are acceptable? If not, what mehtods would be accepted in our society?
Danny- First off, how do you know so many things that involve war?!?!? Second, I agree with you, many times the best plans can turn on you and end up being horrible.
Smith, I guess it just seems as though the only way we solve our important social issues in the world is war. How else are people going to "solve" their problems? And even if there were other methods, what would be the costs of transitioning into those? Would they be accepted?
Emily and Aliisa- No, just firemen in general. Because they can burn without feeling anything for what they burn. I think it also represents Montags soul though. He can do anything but burning things doesnt effect his emotions.
Smith- I think that war is not pointless. You mentioned that the trade for loss of life is Money, oil, or more citizens. all of these are just political bargaining chips. A war to help a certain people from oppression is not pointless, but the good thing to do.
janie- It sounds like most of the class thinks that the war in the book was to show the corruption in society. Of course they should not be using burning and fire to solve their problems
Bailey- Katie said that Sparknotes said that the salamander represents 'ancient beliefs that it lives in fire and is unaffected by flames'.
Montag is in a society surrounded by fire. He is a fire man. Yet, he overcomes that and goes against his nature and his government to read books and try to learn.
Ruthie- I think the reason they used fire is because it is universial. Everyone uses fire, and knows the destruction of it. Also, I think they burned them because that destroys them forever, while ripping and burying doesn't cause them to be gone forever.
Yay we finished the book!!
ReplyDeleteyay!!
ReplyDeleteWOOT!!!
ReplyDeletewoo woo
ReplyDeleteKatie did you like the book?
ReplyDeleteBritni-
ReplyDeleteI loved the book. I think it showed great depth to the world today.
Class- Did you all like the book?
Way to go out with a bang!
ReplyDeleteClass-
ReplyDeleteWere you disappointed or happy with the end of Farenheight?
I thought it was great! One of those books I'm glad somebody made me read.
ReplyDeleteKatie
ReplyDeleteI enjoyed this book also.
Kate-
ReplyDeleteI was happy with the end of the book. It was a happy thing because there were still undreds of people who still had their right mind with them.
Katie- Yes I definately liked this book much more thatn the other books we've read. Some parts were very confusing to me though.
ReplyDeleteKatie- Not really. Like Lord of the Flies, I felt that there was too much description and too many long paragraphs. It wasn't bad, but It wasn't my favorite.
ReplyDeleteAllie-
ReplyDeleteI am glad you enjoyed it! What lasting impact did you take away from it?
Kate-
ReplyDeleteI really disliked the ending, I thought that it was weird that the town was bombed, and their reactions were different than expected.
It's great that you all liked the book, but why did you like it? Give some examples
ReplyDeleteI though it was sad that so many people had to die for a war they never realized.
ReplyDeleteClass-
Whats your opinion?
Class-
ReplyDeleteIn my history class, we have been talking about communism. Do you think that the government in Fahrenheit 451 has become communistic, or has society created this future on its own? (Also; on page 154 the text hints that the constitution may have been burned).
Katie- I thought the book was excelent and very insightful, but I did not like it. I prefer to not think of the futre. It scares me.
ReplyDeleteKatie- I did like the book. One thing that I can't stop thnking about is how similar the society is to ours when you think about and get right done to the bone of the society.
ReplyDeleteConnor-
ReplyDeleteI agree. Were you happy with the way they reacted?
Kate-I agree with Katie, it was good to find out that there were other people that thought this way.
ReplyDeleteClass-
ReplyDeleteIn response to Mellisa's first question:
I think that the reason that Montag thought that Clarrise was there before him was because of how much alike their ways of thinking was. You never know, maybe Montag is thinking that Clarrise had to go through the same things that he did to get to where they both ended up.
Ruthie-
ReplyDeleteI am glad you enjoyed it. Are there any parts you need help clarifying?
Emily-
You did not even like the hidden meaning of the book?
Janie-
ReplyDeleteYou mean montag and his new group?
Katie-
ReplyDeleteI totally agree. It was a relief that there were some people out there that cared like Montag.
Janie-
The huge bombing was quite a surprise, but looking back, the war was mentioned quite a lot
Alex
ReplyDeletei think that the government is communist in this book
although it doesn't say exactly i believe that something happen which brought this country into communism
Connor-
ReplyDeleteYeah. Like did you accept the way they reacted to the bombing of the city?
Katie- I think the impact that it left with me was that you need to keep thinking and wondering and reading, or else what can happen? I mean, when they "think" it's about trite, trivial things. That's how it is for many people these days, as sad as it is.
ReplyDeleteKatie- No, not really most of the parts I didn't understand I re-read over again, but thanks anyway.
ReplyDeleteAlex- I don't think that the government is important enough in the average person's life that they could be considered much of anything. It seems like the only thing the government does is go to war and punish the people who stand out and disrupt society.
ReplyDeleteThe society has created itself, I don't think it was all the government's fault.
Aliisa-
ReplyDeleteDo you really think its about the future. I beleive that it is now, so it would have been the future then. Like Ryan just said the similarites in the society are very scary.
Alex-
ReplyDeleteI don't think that the government is communist, but more of an extreme communism. It has some communist ideas, with the government trying to control everything. I also think that the government is way more extreme then communism we see today. The government completely controls everything, and people have very little free choice.
Kate-
ReplyDeleteSo just because the war was mentioned a lot, were you not as suprised that they were blown up? Do you think that the author kind of foreshadowed?
Alex-
ReplyDeleteI think society has created this future on their own. They wanted to be happy, so they gave all of their control to the government.
Emily- Wow how couldnt you like this book? I could see how LoF could be diliked but not 451. I personally felt that this was a great book. So what made u dislike this reading?
ReplyDeleteKate-
ReplyDeleteYes I agree with you about the war. It was commented on a lot throughout the book, especially in the last sections. In some ways I think that the war should have been something that we should have expected more then we did.
class
ReplyDeleteWhat if Guy thought Clarrise was there befor him because he wanted it that way? What if he felt that out of hope for her life?
Katie- It is a good book, and the hidden meaning is important, but it's just not my style book, if you get what I mean.
ReplyDeleteAllie-
ReplyDeleteWow that is insightful. I agree with you because these people are forced out of their own beliefs which is wrong.
Alex- I think that this government may be a little bit communistic, but it's really more just a "go for it, do whatever the heck you feel like" philosophy.
ReplyDeleteJanie- I thought there was a lack of sadness... I felt that they viewed it as more of an opportunity and I don't know if that is right even if they were cast out from society.
ReplyDeleteClass-
ReplyDeleteDid you think that it was interesting that Clarrise never came back? Do you think she really died?
Alex-
ReplyDeleteI do think that their government has become communist. I'm sure they did take away the Constitution, because it expressed freedom and that is exactly what people in Guy's time don't have: the freedom to think
Katie- Yes I see that now. I do not believe we are in that awful of a place right now, but rather its a warning. I suppose i am naive and prefer to disreguard these things.
ReplyDeleteKatie- I agree with it being about the world we live in today, and it's scary to think that Bradbury predicted this before televisions were entirely in color. He is predicting that the walls of a house are interactive, and Arapahoe has many smartboards that accomplish that task today.
ReplyDeleteJanie-
ReplyDeleteI believe that she did not die. She just left to spread the word of the books she remembers to others like Montag.
Allie
ReplyDeleteI think that the government is communist but the society doesnt know what is going on
The government just "feeds" the society what they want the society to know.
yes the ending was very disapointing when its just killing us. I would have thought that the war was somewhere elseand IT WOULD HAVE BEEN SOMEONE ELSES FAMILY, but it would come around sooner or later.
ReplyDeleteEmily- Ya, I guess that makes sense.
ReplyDeleteClass-
ReplyDeleteI love the point Kailee just brought up about the fire being warming in the end. It really showed a change in Guy from the first paragraph when he talked about loving fire.
Janie- I made this connection at the beginning of the book, but i believe Clarisse's "role" in this book was to prmpt Montag and make him question things- like the witches in Macbeth. However, Clarisse had good intent.
ReplyDeleteJanie- I didn't think that clarisse was actually dead. But yes, I thought it was interesting that someone thatcwas dead could have such an impact on someone.I think that it was that she died that made the bigge.st impact in the story
ReplyDeleteJanie-
ReplyDeleteYes, I think Clarisse is dead. In the novel, I believe her main purpose is to initiate the critical thinking process in Guy, as well as his craving for knowledge and understanding.
Class- how big of a role does the government play in the average person's life?
ReplyDeleteIt seems to me that they only exist to get rid of the people swimming against the flow, if you will.
What do you think?
Britni- I agree that the government is communistic, but I think it is a modernized version of it. The common people at this time are so easily manipulated by the material that reaches them on tv that it makes the task of reaching social "equality" more feasible.
ReplyDeleteDanny
ReplyDeleteThat is true it is kind of scary that he predicted that? What do you think gave him that idea?
Class-
ReplyDeleteIn this book there were many similarities to the way that our society is compared to the society that was in the book. However, there were many things in that society that do not go on in our society today. Do you think that some of these things might happen and just give this book more validity to the way our world is today?
Class-
ReplyDeleteDid you like the ideas about books? I enjoyed how Bradbury said that books "...stitched the patches of the universe together into one garment..." and that "They show the pores in the face of life." I thought that was very true.
Aliisa-
ReplyDeleteI think that it's interesting that you related Clarisse to the witches from Macbeth. They did serve kind of the same purpose, and they were both outcasted and misunderstood.
Janie- I don't think it's odd that Clarrise never came back because she was the spark. What I mean by spark is that she was the one thing that got Guy thinking about everything not just what the government wanted them to think about. Whether or not she died is a very good question because if she was caught then she is definately dead.
ReplyDeleteJanie- Sorry I meant that I think she is dead now but I didn't then.
ReplyDeletesam
ReplyDeleteI agree but what is the author trying to say by making the ending the way he did?
Sam- This is a stereotypical thought process of humans, victims never expect tragedy to happen to them.
ReplyDeleteBailey-
ReplyDeleteI liked that quote also. I think that it is good that these simple books are given such greater meaning.
Janie-
ReplyDeleteWell like what Aliisa said i think that Clarisse was just there to put the idea in Guys head. I think that she was put in the book just to do that. After Guy started o quesion things than Clarisse had nothing left to do so the author took her out. Clarisse was replaced by Faber then buy the rest of the group.
Kate-
ReplyDeleteYou bring up a good point that they may not have the freedom to think, however I believe this is their own choice.
Bailey- I agree with you I think that how Bradbury described these books was very interesting and also very true.
ReplyDeleteClass-
ReplyDeleteWhat do you think about the cops sending the Mechanical Hound after that other man and pretending he was Montag?
Kyler-
ReplyDeleteHow else do you think the book could have ended up? Do you think that there would have been a better way to end the book?
Michelle-
ReplyDeleteI think even with the things that are not similar the things that are already show how much this book apllies. The similarites are already freaky enough without more happening.
Emily- I think that the government is much more involved in people's lives than just stopping people from swimming against the flow. The reason that we arrive at that conclusion is because the government in the society runs the people subtly, not in an open Democratic state like ours. This means that because Montag was challenging the system, his perspective of the government was only that of the section that was trying to stop him.
ReplyDeleteKyler
ReplyDeleteClarisse was a smart girl and there was other smart people pushed aside and so maybe clarisse went across the tracks and met a group of friends if she was still alive. She could have been part of that book society.
Janie
ReplyDeleteI think the cops did this because first they didnt want the society to get worried
and second i think they did this because they didnt want to admit that the lost
Class- Yes the fire is a great example of change and it is especially good cause the fire is the story everything revolves around it
ReplyDeleteClass-
ReplyDeleteHow do you think we can prevent what happened to the society in Farhrenheit 451 from happening to our society?
Bailey- I noticed this also. Very insightful of the author.
ReplyDeleteBritni-
ReplyDeleteIt kind of makes me wonder if something like that has ever happened in our society. What do you think?
Janie-
ReplyDeleteI also wondered about that. I believe that the government did that to show that they were not weak, and to insure the people they were safe. Since the people want life to be exciting if the chase went on it would not be exciting any more.
Janie- I think that the whole point of this was to make people reassured and happy, the governments ultimate goal. Because no one actually saw this guy, no one can tell that's not Montag, and no one would think to wonder.
ReplyDeleteKatie-
ReplyDeleteI totally agree with that statement but still I wonder, even with this book being given to the public the way it is, do you think that maybe our world will/would continue to be more and more like this book?
Class- Do you think we can predict what will happen now? Will society change for the better? Worse? Or continue as it was?
ReplyDeleteKyler- I think that it's partially both. Because Clarisse was so free thinking, there is a strong possibility that she had been ther before. Also, it may be that Montag just wanted her to be there. like yesterday, I went the the mall wih my friend and my mom. I realized toward the end of the trip that I had lost a little wooden token that's always in my pocket, which had little monetary value, but huge sentimental value. My mom told me to think about some little kid finding it and it making them smile. I didn't like that thought. It was MY bear. I liked to think about it as being mine, just like Montag liked thinking about Clarisse being there at one point.
ReplyDeletemichelle
ReplyDeleteI think there needed to be some sort of large action like the bomb but I dont know if he should have killed the entire city. But then again I think I get why he did it.
To keep controll but to not allowing controlling Do you get what I am saying
ReplyDeleteJanie-
ReplyDeleteI think this would be very typical of the futuristic society in the novel. The government wants people to be happy, and if they fail to kill a "fugitive", in this case Guy, people may be potentially unhappy.
Janie
ReplyDeletei do wonder if that ever happened in our society
i dont think it had but it is a possibility
Bailey-
ReplyDeleteI think it is very hard to prevent it because a lot of it has already happened. We can only ensure that it does not continue by fostering a new generation that is not fully dependent on technology like we are becoming.
Michelle-
ReplyDeleteI believe if we don't change our ways and learn from our mistakes, then we will end up exactly like the sociey in the book.
Alex-
ReplyDeleteSo it seems as if they'll ruin someone's life to help everyone else. Do you agree?
Outer circle- we need to do a much better job with proofreading our responses. Pay attention to punctuation, grammar, and spelling.
ReplyDeleteKyler- Can you expand on why you think he did it?
ReplyDeleteMichelle-
ReplyDeleteYes i think that this change is inevitable. In History we have been learning about the 20's and how history repeats its self and i see that happening here.
Class- Why do you think Montag trusted Granger when he first met him? Especially when he knew Montags name, that would have freaked me out.
ReplyDeleteBailey- That's a very good question. The only way I can think of preventing the same thing happening in our society is for the government and government type organizations like school districts t stop trying to control what we see or hear. How many times has the school tried to conceal something that they aren't proud of?
ReplyDeleteKyler-
ReplyDeleteBut with all the talk and anticipation that was handed to the reader about a war about to occur in this book, don't you kind of think that this is the way that is would logically end? While reading about the war in this book did you ever think that this would be the way that this book would end?
Danny- What makes you think that the government is very controlling?
ReplyDeleteKatie-
ReplyDeleteDon't you think we can learn from our mistakes? Yes, it is very hard to prevent it, but that doesn't mean it is impossible to prevent it.
Ruthie- I think he was desperate. He had a good feeling, but then again he had very little other choice than to trust him. I do not believe he could've gotten thi far alone.
ReplyDeleteRuthie-
ReplyDeleteI think that he trusts him because for one he is out of options because he is running away. Also he talks like Clarisse who he trusted a lot.
Aliisa- I'm not really sure if we can predict the future of this society. Do we know enough about it really figure it out? Are there enough people who know how to "read" that it can go back?
ReplyDeleteBailey- I think that one of the major ways that we can prevent our society from becoming one like that of Fahrenheit 451 is by not depending on tv or news broadcasts for information. Even in today's world, you can usually gain some information about major events from the news, but many times third person websites and reviews are better than the news, because then you can gather information from people who specialize in the fields of the news. If these sources are removed, then the news stations, and ultimately the government are in control of what the people know.
ReplyDeleteBailey-
ReplyDeleteI agree with you. I think that after we make mistakes, the most important thing that we can do is realize that we have made those mistakes and then, if nothing at all, at least learn something from them.
janie
ReplyDeleteThis was stupid. Men in Black has all the top students from military school shooting what they saw and what they thought was bad. It's like that no one wants to be attacked while the people are doing their regular activites. What did that guy do to deserve this?
Bailey-
ReplyDeleteI know what you are saying but we as humans are a selfish race and it is true you learn from mistakes but we are stubborn and we refuse to let others tell us what is right and wrong.
Aliisa-
ReplyDeleteOn page 163, Granger talks about a phoenix. The phoenix has a never-ending life-cycle which begins again every few hundred years. In the same way I think that very slowly society will begin again with the help of the intellectuals.
ruthie- they were the only ones who would except him. I don't think he had much of a choice.
ReplyDeleteRuthie-
ReplyDeleteMontag saw the look of Granger and knew that he could be trusted. I was not surprised that he knew his name, considering Montag was all over the news.
Sam-
ReplyDeleteExactly. He didn't deserve it, but the people of the city obviously mean more to the government/cops rather than one man.
Allie- I agree its very hard to say. People need a leader. Many people are afraid to think on their own, so it depends whether they want to follow witht heir old society (humans dislike change), or if they realize their flaws. And by your thought of not enough peole being able to read, is it just read? Or think independently also.
ReplyDeleteDanny-
ReplyDeleteI completely agree. I think we need to acknowledge the fact that we are becoming too dependent on technology and change so that we still use technology, but are not entirely dependent on it.
Bailey
ReplyDeleteI agree with Danny.
We will be ok as long as we dont start depending on technology.
This reminds me of Walle because the humans were doing just fine until they started to depends on technology then they turned out fat and couldnt even walk.
Janie-
ReplyDeleteYes, again I think the government revolves around a communist based society.
Class-
ReplyDeleteDid anyone else notice that Bradbury used a lot of animals? The salamander, the beetle, the hound, and the phoenix.
Class-
ReplyDeleteIt seemed to me that at the end Montag started thinking more and more about Mildred. Do you think that since he knows that she is gone forever, he realizes what he missed?
Class-
ReplyDeleteA huge symbol, the mechanical dog, failed in finding Montag. What do thing this all means?
Katie-
ReplyDeleteI did notice that. It reminded me of all the bird connections Shakespeare made in Macbeth
I agree with both Katie and Aliisa- I think that Montag was desperate and his choice to go with Granger might have ended well but it might not have, with nothing to lose, Montag was willing to take that chance.I also like what Katie said about Clarisse, she was familiar to him and in a way she was kind of a role model to him.
ReplyDeleteKatie- I agree that humans are stubborn, but I also think that humans are also afraid of change. Guy may have been pondering about challenging the system, but he had never seen anybody make this change before. After he met Clarisse, he saw that someone else had changed, and that was what finally made him start to rebel. After Clarisse, he continued to think and take chances to a point. It took Faber coming into his life to influence him to take it to the next level.
ReplyDeleteAliisa- By "read" I mean being able to think about what they've read. Do they know how to process it?
ReplyDeleteBritni-
ReplyDeleteYou said we will be ok if we don't start depending on technology. Do you think we are not depending on technology right now?
Britni- We are already dependent on technology. I think the main thing is to keep thinking. Keep relying on science and discovery and philosophy. Keep the average human questioning the world around him, and keep society changing.
ReplyDeleteHumans have proved how helpful and useful and good technology is and can be.
Kate-
ReplyDeleteTo me the mechanical hound failing represents the failure of the government and society as a whole.
bailey
ReplyDeleteI think its not a question of can we learn because we can learn there is no question there but I think it is a question of do we choose to learn.
Katie-
ReplyDeleteYes, that is a great point.
Why do you think there was a salamander on the firemens' jackets?
Chris- This is an interesting point. "You don't realize what you have untill it's gone," kind of thing.
ReplyDeleteKatie-
ReplyDeleteMaybe he did this to show that even innocent animals in our world, such as dogs, are being transformed into frightening, vicious creatures.
Kate- I think that it could be that Bradbury is saying that good will always exist or it will find a way to exist.
ReplyDeleteJanie-
ReplyDeleteYay I am not the only one who saw that!!
Danny-
I know what you are saying but you think that it was Faber who pushed him over the top?
Danny- do you really think that humans are afraid of change? Numerous countries revolt and have revolutions. We expand in science and technology and trade and business and communications and medicine every day.
ReplyDeleteI think that humans fear the unknown. When we make new things, we know what they do and what will happen. We are scared about not knowing.
Class-
ReplyDeleteOn page 164, Granger talks about "burying war and covering it up". Do you think that along with all of the ideas and predictions Ray Bradbury entwined into the novel, there was also an anti-war feeling?
Chris-
ReplyDeleteI don't think Montag realizes what he missed with Millie, but rather wondered why he never got close to her until she was gone
Allie- Of this i am unsure, like you said we do not know enough about this society. When the city was blown up Montag remebered where he met Millie, was this coincidence? Like if the bomb destroyed some source of forgetfullness in the humans. Maybe if this is the case other people will "remember how to read".
ReplyDeleteAlex-
ReplyDeleteI don't think that there really was any anti-war feeling before the war at all. The war was supposed to be fast, and everyone thought it wouldn't effect them. So, I think there was no pro or anti war, the war was just going to happen and people didn't really care.
Ruthie- I think that Bradbury is showing what can happen because of cumulative human failure. The government has tried to exercise complete control over people, but they have failed because the human mind can't be controlled indefinetly, and people like Clarisse and Montag have begun to think, which is counter productive of the government goals.
ReplyDeleteAlex- I think that Bradbury was warning us agaisnt starting so many wars and that we shouldn't or it could get us into a lot of trouble.So yes, in a way I think that there is a hint of anti- war thrown into this book.
ReplyDeleteAlex-
ReplyDeleteNow that you mention that I do think that. Especially in the way that he ended the book with it and it was so abrupt and sudden. I don't think that he himself liked war at all.
Kate-
ReplyDeleteI did some research and i found that salamanders need to live near water which i found hypocritical. But i think he chose the salamander to show that there might be hope for the salamanders to go back to the good or the water.
Class- Do you think that it is possible for people to learn how to really read and process things, or are they doomed to stay ingorant for the rest of time?
ReplyDeleteKatie-
ReplyDeleteDid Montag choose to put a salamander there?
Class-
ReplyDeleteListening to the inter circle and Smith you know the quote "history always repeats itself" do you see that happening here?
Katie
ReplyDeleteGood point but that still doesnt explain why the symbol was a salamander to start out with
Allie-
ReplyDeleteAre you refering to the people in this book or to people in the real world?
Allie- I think that if the people choose to do something and feel really passionate about that something they will find a way to do it.
ReplyDeleteRuthie- Going along with what you said, do you think the city was symbolic? Like in the end war will destroy you and everything? Because the entire setting of the book revolves around this city.
ReplyDeleteAllie
ReplyDeleteI think it is possible but they will actually need to try unlike Mildred did. They will also need teachers such as Montag.
Allie-
ReplyDeleteI do not think that they are doomed to stay ignorant. They have all the people who were defying the laws by keeping books. These people along with all the people who were on the railroad tracks are able to teach those who don't know. So, I think that they will eventually learn, but it may take a while.
Allie- in their society? Honestly, I don't think that the people in Montag's old city will ever overcome their utter dependency on their technology and things.
ReplyDeleteI think it's possible that other cities could overcome this, or the fugitives like Montag could make a new society with the knowledge that they have stored.
Alex and Michelle-
ReplyDeleteI'm sure Bradbury wrote this book out of anger because he doesn't like war and the way our society is changing
Alex-
ReplyDeleteDo you think that all of the wars even had any significance? There was a lot of wars in this book. One was even 48 hours. I mean, how much of a war can you have in two days?
Allie- I think this depends on whether the people want to and are open minded to it. If they decide to be lazy they will rely on technology again.
ReplyDeleteMichelle- I was referring to the people in the book. Also, I guess it sort of could apply to the real world as well.
ReplyDeleteBailey
ReplyDeleteWell i think you can have a 48 hour war in this time because they are so technologically advanced.
Katie- I think that in this case history is repeating itself in a more modern form. At the time Ray Bradbury wrote the book, the majority of American feelings were anti-communistic. I wonder is he saw in a way parrallel pre communistic ideas between the Soviet Union and the U.S., and attributed the rise of technology to America's downfall.
ReplyDeleteAllie-
ReplyDeleteNo, the first humans had to find a way to understand and comprehend things. Over time I believe the human race began to abuse knowledge, and technology, and slowly began to regress, rather than expand upon their knowledge. In saying this, I think that similar to the phoenix the cycle will begin again.
Aliisa-I think that the city was in a way symbolic but in a different way than you said. I think that the city collapsing was symbolism for that way of government collapsing or that way of thinking disapearing.Something like starting over again.
ReplyDeleteAllie-
ReplyDeleteWell in that case, I think that our society is safe for now because we do have some brains but as for the people in the book, they can't start worrying about understanding the books just yet. They have to focus on making them legal first and that in itself is one of the biggest struggles of all.
Ruthie- I agree. Relating back to the phoenix and "history will repeat itself".
ReplyDeleteClass-
ReplyDeleteWhy do you think society in Fahrenheit 451 was always involved in war? Was it for pointless reasons?
Kate-
ReplyDeleteIs there such thing as a pointless war?
kate-
ReplyDeleteDo you think that this book was writin out of anger for that reason and only for that reason. I do not think so. I think that this book was writin for many reasons and one of those reasons is to warn us of how harmful the future can be if we do not handle ourselves well in the present.
Kate-
ReplyDeleteThe salamander is just the universal symbol of firemen
Class- What do you think the mechanical hound was symbolizing throughout the book?
ReplyDeleteBritni- In today's world it is possible to have a 30 minute war. This is a scary thought, but America alone has enough nuclear weapons to destroy the entire world 34 times over. I also have to say that the best laid plans can turn into chaos on the battlefield.
ReplyDeleteKate-
ReplyDeleteI think that the war was to give a glimpse of how messed up their society truly was. How violent they were.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteKate- I think it could also represent the way the people do not interact much anymore. Maybe there was misunderstanding between countries because of lack of interaction. Also it could be to prove ones power. Like you said for pointless reasons I am guessing.
ReplyDeleteKate
ReplyDeleteI think one reason they could have gone to war was because the society thinks that they are so much better than everyone else.
Katie-
ReplyDeleteYes! That is one of the themes you can take away from this book. 50 years ago, Bradbury made this predictions that have come true today. This is truly saying something about our society. Look at World War Two. Hitler was killing people because he saw them as "inferior." America swore that we would never let that happen again. Today, people are still getting killed because they are different. Our world is caught up in a circle of repeating themselves over and over again.
Kate- I think that this society found that they were able to declare war and when you find tat you have access to something you usualy go over board with it.
ReplyDeleteBailey-
ReplyDeleteIn the novel, the wars are atomic. If we look back on history the atomic bombing of Japan marked the end of World War II in the Pacific. I think Bradbury wants to highlight how much of an impact wars of the future will have, and speak out against them.
Janie-
ReplyDeleteI guess "pointless" was the wrong word. What I was trying to say is why would they constantly be in war?
Kate- "we make war to achieve peace." I think this is wars motto 'nowadays', but rather pointless in this time.
ReplyDeleteRyan
ReplyDeletePower because one could the hound easily by pressing a few buttons.
Janie- I think you could argue that all war is pointless. No one gains from war. Everyone experiences casualities, loss of life, for gaining what? Land? Oil? More citizens? increase taxes?
ReplyDeleteor is war simply a distraction?
Janie-
ReplyDeleteAbout your question about pointless wars.
I don't know if you could call any war "pointless", because at least one of the sides fighting believe that they are fighting for a cause. I think some wars are "avoidable", but not really pointless.
Kate and Britni-
ReplyDeleteMore on the salamander. I went to sparknotes... and found that the salamander was used because 'of ancient beliefs that it lives in fire and is unaffected by flames'.
Ryan- I think that the hound was there to show the brutal side of technology. The interactive walls of the homes in this world were the technology that was helpful to humans. These hounds are machines that are perfectly obedient, and will kill without hesitation. Since a hound is also such a relatively small creature, it shows just how destructive humans can be. It also represents the instinctive nature that all humans have, and that is to kill for survival.
ReplyDeleteClarification: wars are not necessary, but they have a "point."
ReplyDeleteKate-
ReplyDeleteI think that he made the city constantly be in war because it showed their social problems, and attempted solutions. The only attempted solution seen are burning and war. Do you think that those methods are acceptable? If not, what mehtods would be accepted in our society?
Kyler-
ReplyDeleteExactly. It's all about our willingness to change how we live.
Danny- First off, how do you know so many things that involve war?!?!? Second, I agree with you, many times the best plans can turn on you and end up being horrible.
ReplyDeleteKatie- Do you think that Montag is the 'salamander'?
ReplyDeleteKatie- Then what do you think it represents? Ideas?
ReplyDeleteBailey-
ReplyDeleteGreat examples! I think that this is probably the main theme, at least for me.
Emily-
ReplyDeleteWhy do you compare Montag to the salamander?
Katie
ReplyDeleteThat would explain why that was the firemen symbol
My question now is was that always the symbol.
The firemen use to put out fires so was this the symbol even then?
Thanks for the salamander info, Katie!
ReplyDeleteSam- That could be what it's used as because couldn't it also represent fear?
ReplyDeleteSmith,
ReplyDeleteI guess it just seems as though the only way we solve our important social issues in the world is war. How else are people going to "solve" their problems? And even if there were other methods, what would be the costs of transitioning into those? Would they be accepted?
Class- Why do you think think Bradbury fire to dispose of the books? They could have ripped them up or buried them.
ReplyDeleteEmily and Aliisa-
ReplyDeleteNo, just firemen in general. Because they can burn without feeling anything for what they burn. I think it also represents Montags soul though. He can do anything but burning things doesnt effect his emotions.
Smith- I think that war is not pointless. You mentioned that the trade for loss of life is Money, oil, or more citizens. all of these are just political bargaining chips. A war to help a certain people from oppression is not pointless, but the good thing to do.
ReplyDeletejanie-
ReplyDeleteIt sounds like most of the class thinks that the war in the book was to show the corruption in society. Of course they should not be using burning and fire to solve their problems
Ryan- Like Kyler mentioned, the hound "failed". Is this Bradbury's way of showing us that we cannot solely rely on technology?
ReplyDeleteBailey-
ReplyDeleteKatie said that Sparknotes said that the salamander represents 'ancient beliefs that it lives in fire and is unaffected by flames'.
Montag is in a society surrounded by fire. He is a fire man. Yet, he overcomes that and goes against his nature and his government to read books and try to learn.
Ruthie-
ReplyDeleteI think the reason they used fire is because it is universial. Everyone uses fire, and knows the destruction of it. Also, I think they burned them because that destroys them forever, while ripping and burying doesn't cause them to be gone forever.
Kate-
ReplyDeleteBut it's the only method they know. How should they know better? How COULD they know better?
Ruthie- Then these books would still exist. Ripping apart is more of a hassle and can be pieced back together, and they can be unburied.
ReplyDeleteRuthie- I think that they use fire because it is total destruction. It destroys almost anything, and only leaves a pile of blackened ashes.
ReplyDelete