Class: Do you think that the book is ending too quickly? Answer at http://www.polleverywhere.com/free_text_polls/LTEyNTEwNzUzMzk
Zach- it's kind of hard to see the whole link and we can't click on it. Is it just my computer?
Emily,I can't see it either. I can't even find it by copying and pasting the link into the internet.
What if you don't have a phone?
Zach's poll - should be clickable.I thought they dragged out the ending, personally. It just kept going and going, but not in a bad way. If it had been any slower I would have gotten bored.
copy & paste
ClassDo you think that Montag ever regrets killing Beatty?
class-why did ray bradbury end the book so fast when you cant see what montag was going to do?
Andy:I think he felt guilty about killing everyone that he killed but he knew that he had to do it.
Class:A few weeks ago in fishbowl, we were saying that there were not enough people to even cause an uprising. Are any of you surprised that the Harvard Scholars exist? If so, why?
Zach-I agree. The book starts moving really quickly towards the end, but theres not enough details to make it interesting. It just runs on about how he's trying to escape and how the metal hound is chasing him. The book would've been better if there was more to the ending...
Daniel:I think Bradbury ended the book like that so you could almost think of your own ending? He wanted the reader to interpret it.
Andy-I think he felt guilty, but justified. He was sad about killing a friend, but he sees it as necessary.
Andy: If you don't have a phone, don't vote. And get a phone, you may need it in case of emergency.
daniel: I think he left it up to opinion. Kind of like LOF, the book ended really fast, like 451, you just have to think i guess.
Danielle- I think that he ended the book so fast becaus ehe wanted to leave the readers hanging and maybe open up to interpretation. He maybe wanted the reader to end the book in their own way, the way that they may think is right, so it kind of leaves the reader hanging.
Melanie-I completely agree with you I think that they took it way to far. I was falling asleep in that last part.Class-Do you think that it would have been better if he left 136-165 out of the book completely?
Andy:I think Beatty wanted to die. Montag probably doesn't regret killing Beatty because Beatty wanted it.
Daniel:I think he ended it where he did because if he wrote about what happened next he would have to write a lot before he could provide closure.
Shannon-I don't think that it would have been better, because then it would have been more of a "cliffhanger" and would leave a lot more open.
Class-Is there some significance to the old men all being scholars and thinkers? And what do you think their lives were like before becoming men on the run?
It is popular for an author to leave it up to the reader to decide what happens to a character at the end of a book. Just like in the Giver, you don't know what happens to the main character, you just have to guess.
Kara- I wasn't that surprised about the Harvard scholars because I somewhat expected that there were people other than Clarisse or Mantag that wanted to make a difference or keep books. This shows that Montag wasn't the only other person who wanted to challenge the system.
Shannon:I don't think that we would totally understand why we shouldn't do this in our society if Bradbury left out the last 60-some pages. I believe he is showing that even if we slip into this, there will be people out there waiting to clean up pthe mess.
Andy:I don't think Montag regrets killing Beatty. After he killed Beatty he said "You always said, don’t face the problem, burn it. Well, now I've done both. Good-bye Captain." Page 121. So I think it's pretty clear that he states he had only taken care of a problem, not killed a person. I can kind of understand why he thought that because people didn't really think they didn't have personalities. They didn't ACT human so why would they be treated as one? I mean those kids in the Beatle tried to run Montag over just because they were bored and felt like it. They don't really treat each other humanely anymore.
Daniel-I agree with Logan. He ended it so that he could have quick closure on it, I just wish that he would have provided more details instead of having the chase run on and on.
Andy:Put yourself in his shoes. No matter how bad, that person was, how would you feel if you had killed someone?
Daniel-I think that Bradbury ended the book fast, even though you can't tell what Montag was doing to keep your imagination and your guesses flowing. This book is about censorship and control. If Ray Bradbury would have told you the ending, it would be censorship and you wouldn't care to think about what happened.
Rebekkah-I remember a while ago that Mrs. Smith said that Ray Bradbury was the type of man to leave you hanging and not tie up loose ends. I think that that is very interesting and agree with you completely.
Taylor:Most of the people on the run are probably former professors because they are the only ones who care enough about books and learning to do something about it.
eberger:If you think about it, they aren't really people. They don't act like people because they don't think on their own. It's almost like your just burning a thing, like how the firemen thought about burning books. You can't have guilt over something that isn't alive.
Class-What can we conclude about Mildred? Did she die listening to her seashell, tuning the world out, or did she die worrying about Montag? We know she must have died because of the atomic bomb.
Taylor:The scholars and professors showed that there were others like Montag who challenge the system.
ClassNow that you know what it was like for Montag to kill Beatty, do you think Montag was right when the thought occured to him that Beatty wanted to be killed and why do you think Beatty wanted to be killed?
Class:What do you think of the professors keeping entire books inside their minds. Do you think this is an effective way to remember a book.
Taylor:I believe that Mildred died in her hotel as the bomb hit and she was listening to her seashells, tuning out the world. It was Montag who was worrying and almost missing Mildred as the bomb hit.
Taylor W-I'm not sure if she died worrying about Montag, she may have worried a little bit, but it seems like they don't love each other enough for her to worry.
Class:I don't know why Beatty wanted to die. I was confused on that part. Can anyone explain it to me?
Taylor:I think that Mildred died in the tuning the world out phase. Probably she was worried about Montag somewhere in the back of her mind because even though they did not love eachother they cared for one another.
Nathan:Isn't that how everyone remembers books? We stick them in our heads whether we realize it or not.
Taylor:I think that she died from all of those things listed except for thinking about Montag. I don't think that Mildred ever cared about Montag. Montag seemed to care about her, but not love her. Mildred seemed like she only used him to get more parlor walls and things that she wanted. She never acted sympathetic towards him or showed any compassion.
Nathan:I think that keeping books in their mind is very smart because, a) there is no evidence of books, b) if there is no evidence, they can't burn, and c)it will always be there.
Class-I am confused about how Granger, Fred Clement, Dr. Simmons, Professor West, and Reverend Padover fit into the story. Do you have any ideas?
Andy- I think that Beatty wanted to be killed because he knows that he cannot read the books and he knows that people basically cannot think for themselves. I guess he just thought that there was no reason to live any more because society was telling you what to do and what to think.
Taylor: Mildred reminds me a lot of Joan Cusack part in the movie "Toys." She was actually a robot who would recharge every day. Like Mildred, she was always "out of it" and kind of in "la la" land. We will never know what exactly it was, I'd say she was listening to her seashell...
Taylor:We don't necessarily know if Beatty wanted to die, only Beatty knows that. But there was a point where Beatty was standing in front of an armed man, taunting him, basically asking for death. Did he want to really die? We may never know. But we know that Beatty had that point in life where it didn't matter anymore.
Nathan:I think they were important because it was a closing thought that showed there were others such as Montag.
TaylorMaybe Beatty was like Montag and wanted to read books and that's why he knew so many quotes, but to know that all this important and usefull knolege was forbidden was too much for him to handle. It wasn't enough to make him kill himself, but enough for him just to give up and just leave the world behind.
Nate:They are people like Faber, they are the outcasts who are on the run because of knowledge. I think Bradbury puts them in the story to show that there still is knowledge in the story.
Sydney:Why was he at a point in life where it didn't matter?
Sydney:I think that you’re right to a certain degree. Everyone remembers books, but if one book is more powerful and moving to you then you might remember it a bit more. I don't think that a normal person couldn't recall a whole book with only reading it once.
Class- Who do you think dropped the A-bomb? Another country, a different state, aliens? Who was at war with this society?
Neelyd2013Actually,There are people who can memorize their whole bible, the Karan, which is like 600 pages.
neely-I agree with you. It would be very hard to remember a book with only reading it once. I wonder what the Professor means when he was talking about unlocking what Montag remembers.
TAYLOR:I can't be sure. But look at Beatty and his circumstances. He had SO much knowledge but nobody to share it with. Why would he want to be there?NEELY:Well look at us reading Farenheit 451. We remember the little parts and can piece together the whole thing.
Class:Do you think that instant gratification is the most important thing in this society? And also, what do you think about the killing of the innocent man that was killed in place of Montag? Do you think Montag felt guilty for the killing of the innocent man?
Nathan:Those characters seem to fit in because not only are they harboring the main character, Montag. They are also teaching him new things. They state all of the books that they have read, and they say they remember them all. So each time they read through a book they burn them to be careful not to be caught. But the books remain in their heads therefore they are able to share them with anyone who knows. But because the government can't search your thoughts the books are safely kept in their minds.
Taylor:Do you think the war could have been a war in their society? People going against the government?
Andy- Wouldn't you think they read it more than once? They don't have to memorize it word for word, just get the basic idea.
Class:what do you think that Montag and the Professors are going to do now? How are they going to rebuild society and what else do you think that they will do?
Josh:They are going to help society rebuild with books as an important part.
Class:How far in the future do you think this book is set.
Taylor, As you know, there were people in the society who were aginst the govermont, but as you also know, none of them were willing to actually rise up aginst the establishment and do some thing about the problem at hand.
Taylor:I don't know who exactly, one theory is that this whole book was based on Japan, where everyone is Japanese (that would explain the censorship). He did write the book after WWII,in Japan, no one thought that the war was a big deal, like in the book, and in that case, America dropped the A-bomb
Josh:I think they are going to clean up society and reinstate knowledge to create a better life. They have learned from their mistakes and will keep them in mind.
EmilyThey DO memorize it word for word.
Josh- I think that they are going to rebuild the society where everybody can think for themselves and maybe even have school where they have books. I think they will have libraries and not burn other's books anymore and maybe even encourage reading.
Taylor-Gosh it is weird addressing myself! Anyways, I think it could have been a war in society, but I am wondering then who dropped the bomb. Was it firemen, or government officials, or the national guard? And if it were regular people, then how would they have obtained the knowledge needed in order to successfully execute a terrorist attack?
Andy-Okay, maybe they memorize a little more than the basic idea, but nobody can memorize 600 pages of "then, the bush..." and so on.
Andy:They read it more than once. To get the general idea is the first step to memorization. But the more you read it the more you memorize. First it's the beginning chapter, then the next and so on.
Taylor Simple books
Class:What year do you think the book is set in?
KARAi think that montag felt as bad about the innocent man like hhis wife. he wouldnt cry or feel bad, he was just like a pedestrian, nobody that he knew.
EmilyBut they do, it is in their religion!!
Class: could someone tell Mrs. Smith to put up my poll?
Emily:Actually Andy is correct in saying that some people do memorize the Bible. For example missionaries usually memorize the Bible in order to get a better understanding of it. I think that if we all memorized 451 then we might think about it more, and find more connections in daily life.
TaylorW:I know right! Well I don't know that is a good point. Maybe it is government officials who have the power to do such a thing because I don't think common people would be able to pull off such a thing.
Nathan-I was wondering this too. I think it's either in the early 3000s or the late 2000s.
Nathan-I think that the book was set in the future, but at the same time its a future that has reverted to the past. Kind of relating to what they are talking about, with divorces and womans roles in society...
Class:Do you think that instant gratification is the most important thing in this society? And also, what do you think about the killing of the innocent man that was killed in place of Montag? Do you think Montag felt guilty for the killing of theinnocent man?
NEELY:They don't necessarily memorize the Bible they remember parts of the Bible.
NathanThe Furure or the year 2000. People in the eara that this book was written had strange visions of the year 2000.
Nate-I think that it is set in our time or maybe the 90's because that is still 40 years in advance.
Nathan-I think that the book was trying to be set in the 1990's or the early 21st century. the articles in the book like the parlor walls and stuff i think lead to this time period.
WHATS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLETHERE ARE PEOPLE WHO MEMORIZE THE WHOLE KARAN. DON'T ASK ME WHY. ALL I KNOW IS THAT THEY DO!!!!!
Neely and Andy-I know they memorize passages, etc. But have you read the bible? I haven't read the whole thing, but I had to read some of it at camp a couple years ago. They do memorize word for word certain passages, but not the whole book. And, there are several different versions of it. There's a modern one, and an old one. For example, instead of "thy" they'll say "you" or whatever thy means
Sydney:No, they actually memorize the Bible. They are able to recite it perfectly. It may take years to do, but their religion or just because of their personality they are pushed to be able to do it. People with photographic memories are easily able to do it, but for the normal human it's more difficult. For example with religion, sometimes they don't focus on learning anything, but the Bible in some simple societies.
Class-When Montag remembers where he and Mildred met, do you think he wanted to remember that or did it just come to him all of a sudden? Maybe he remembered it because he realized that you don't see how much you love something, or someone, until it's gone.
Class-This may be a big stretch but I saw that color television was invented in 1951 which is when the book was published. Maybe that's why so many people are obsessed with TV is because that's how it was in Bradbury's time.
ANDY:I think you're losing your mind about this. People memorize books because it's important to them. It's special.
Kara-you sure that he was killed? I mean maybe I don't remember this correctly but I thought that they just took him away. But, if I did remember this wrong, then no I think it is totally inappropriate.
Andy:Qur'an, or Koran do you mean?I don't really see how memorization is a priority here... they just know the books. It happens.
PEOPLE OF THIS CLASSROOMI THINK THE WHOLE CONVERSATION ON PEOPLE MEMORIZEING THE KARAN IS KIND OF OFF TOPIC. EVENTHOUGH THEY DO, WE NEED TO GET BACK ON TOPIC.
Grant-I think that is a possiblity. Im guessing that when the color tv came out it was a huge thing, so Ray Bradbury saw it as a big thing that was going to control society.
Andy:If something was very special to you and was the foundation of your life you would memorize it too.
GrantYou're exactly right! The book has complete relevance to Bradbury's time period. That's why there's a war...WWII!
Neely-I don't think we necessarily know that they actually memorize every word. It doesn't specifically say that anywhere. However, Granger does say that when they finally do retype the books, they may not be perfect, but the idea will be right, and that will be enough.
Dude, caps lock.
Andy-I do agree with you, but I have a few things to point out.1. You started it.2. Stop using all capitals, this is a classroom blog.
Grant:When the television became widely popular, people were fascinated. They could do the same things, watch the same things and that instilled a sense of community. I think Bradbury is saying that if t.v. is a focal point of our lives that it will be horrible in the long run.
Class-Is anyone else really upset with the people in the woods? I am furious! I can not believe that they haven't tried to over come the fire men! On the other hand, what do you think would happen if the fire men were absent in their world?
Grant: I think that is very interesting that you noticed that. Yes, I think that because of actual life in the 1951 effected how the author wrote. People thought TVs were incredible and were "the future." So I think that because of the "miracle" of TVs that's some of the reason behind the idea of the parlor walls.
Class:Lets move the conversation along shall we. What do you think happened to the firemen Montag knocked out?
PEOPLE THERE ISN'T ANYTHING WORNG WITH CAPS LOCK AND JUST DROP THE SUBJECT!!!1!!!!!
Nathan:Simply put, they are dead. I don't think much can happen after that.
Andy- One of the rules of the blog was correct mechanics. This includes all capitals. Please turn it off, it's annoying.
ANDY:As far as I can see you're the one keeping the subject alive. Breath.
Nathan I think they just woke up and wonderd what happend for a little bit and then just contiuned along with their lives.
Grant-Good connection. However, I think that people watch and are obsessed with T.V. because that is all the government allows. I think that the invention of the color T.V. made it so that the people won't get bored and question.
Nate-Well unless he killed them I am sure they are fine, they are probably just went on with there lives, I don' think that is a very big topic.
Andy/Class:This is a classroom blog. Can everyone please stop using caps lock and the multiple exclamation points?
SydneyYou just brought it up again.
Shannon-I think that if the firemen weren't there their society would be a lot more like ours. There would be less control and there would probably be books so people would actually think and comprehend.
Class-With the TV thing, wouldn't you get a really big headache from that much TV? I know I would.
Bradbury reminds me of my great grandmother. When new technology like the iPod came out, she said that they were bad, I shouldn't get one, they were brainwashing tools from the government, and they would take over the world. Possibly, there was dispute over if telivisions would, could brainwash you. Bradbury was on the side of yes! they would!
Shannon-The people in the forest can do more good waiting out the war. If they try to overpower the firefighters they will be killed and lose everything they know.
Class:What do you think about the way Beatty died? He died by the very thing that he had been in control of for years and years.
Nathan:I think that when they awoke they just informed the police about what happened and that was why the police had a lock on who killed Beatty. I don't think they were very important in the story though.Andy:Please don't make this a big deal. Caps look like you are yelling, this is just a classroom blog to explain the book to each other. Please be respectful.
Logan-I agree with you. Play smart, not hard.
Nathan:pretty ironic huh?
Nathan: I think that the police knew about it because the people told them when they woke up.
Taylor-The problem is they would have no government, the people would be allowed to do whatever, and no one would have control over what they couldn't do.
Shannon-I think that Bradbury made a wise decision in adding the woodsmen. I liked how they were intelligent and intellectual, characters I could really connect with. They wrapped the story up. And if the firemen did not exist, I think that the woodsmen would have ended up on the run anyways. Society is jelous of intellectual people, and these men were certainly very intellectual.
Class:If Bradbury thought that t.v. would brainwash us, what would he think ipods and computers are doing to us? There is false info on the internet and people, not even government officials, can say whatever they want. Any ideas about the brainwashing of our society through computers and even itunes?
KARA:I think brainwashing is a little dramatic. You chose to believe what you want. Technology can be bad, but it can also make it better. It depends on what they use it for.
KaraNow a days, there is no grief about the iPod because it is being used for innovative ideas...even older people are getting ipods because their fun to play with. They don't know how to use them, but they're fun...
Sydney:I think technology makes my life better but what if we choose the wrong thing to believe?
Nathan:That very ironic. I think it's also interesting how his murderer was a person he trusted to a degree. He trained Montag himself, and yet he couldn't control him.
Zach-Your grandma would be best friends with mine. She doesn't want me to listen to my iPod, use computers, blenders, etc. Ever since she saw Transformers, she's been scared the government will take over through technology, even though that's not what the movie is about.
The point that he used t.v was to show that people had to look out for what the govermont was using the t.vs for and how if people aren't careful, they could believe anything that they saw.
Kara-I think Bradubury would have the same opinion of computers and ipods as he does TV. It's the same basic idea of it "brainwashing" us and when were using those things we normally aren't thinking for ourselves.
Taylor W-However, I really don't think that part of the book was neccessary, wouldn't it make you wonder more if the last line was like Montag was dragged down the dark river?
Kara- I think that Bradbury would think that ipods and computers are brainwashing us. They are in a way because we spend so much time using them and a lot of people's world revolves around new technology. We will somehow make our way to the computer or texting a friend when we are supposed to be doing homework. This shows that we think that the new technology is more important than any other thing that we are doing or have.
Nathan-I think that the way Beatty died is kind of ironic.he was using fire his entire life and then he is destroyed by it.
What is the inner circle talking about?answer it at http://www.polleverywhere.com/free_text_polls/MzU5NTcxODcy
Kara-I think Bradbury is sitting at home (figuratively), smiling to himself and thinking, "I told you so".
Kara-I agree, technology is taking over. Think about the tolls out on C 470 (or whatever highway takes you to the airport). The nice people who gave you change back have been replaced by cameras that take a picture of your license plate and send you the bill. What kind of society lives like that?We have been brainwashed into thinking machines can do a better job at our jobs than us. But really, who invented this technology? Maybe the people creating new technology are responsible for the brainwashing.
KARA:That's in interesting thing to bring up. I have my own personal beliefs, but people think differently. What you choose to believe is yours, but everyone knows right from wrong, so I think it's a conscious thing.
Kara-I think that the use of iPods and computers to brainwhash people is the same thing as T.V. I think that Bradbury didn't mention iPods or computers because he was focusing on the general idea of censorship.
NATHAN-That is a great observation. It is like in Macbeth how Macbeth fought by the sword and died by the sword.
What is the inner circle talking about?answer it athttp://www.polleverywhere.com/free_text_polls/MzU5NTcxODcy
Nathan-Its ironic the way he died. He himself had used fire and been the fire cheif for all of those years and now he is killed by it.
ZACH:Two words: listen in.
Kara-I think that he would totally disapprove of all of our technology.But, at the same time, most of us don't just sit at home after school on the computer or watching TV. I know pretty much all high school sports are everyday after school, so at least some of us are doing productive activities.
Taylor:Machines are replacing our jobs, I think that is partly why we have problems finding jobs. If you have seen the new Willy Wonka and the Choclate Factory, Charlie's dad's job of screwing toothpaste caps on is replaced by a robot that can screw caps on 100s of times faster.
Nathan-What was the purpose of him dying that way?
Nathaniel:He didn't mention iPods because he didn't even know they existed. I think he was focusing on the general idea of censorship, but he uses the books to show how much censorship can really start to change our lives and how we live.
Taylor- I agree with you in the sense that the people creating the technology are responsible for the brainwashing. I hear many adults and even my parents complaining about what they didn't have as a child or what they had to do. It is their generation though that is creating all of the new technology that is spoiling us or making us lazy, even though they are the ones who are advancing it and creating it. This was the connection I made to what you said.
Class:What are everyone's thoughts on the last sentence of the book, "When we reach the city." ? I thought of the mention of the Phoenix before, how the man kept saying we burn, and build from the ashes again. Do you think that that's what happened to Montag here? Is he going in circles, or what?
Kara-Yes, but if you saw the ending, he got the job of fixing the machine. Machines are replacing jobs, like when I saw police send in a robot to stop a suicide (you can guess how that turned out) but who's going to fix the robot?
Melanie-It's a new beginning.
Sydney:Zach isn't here that's why he is posting those polls.
Kara-If everyone's job is replaced by machines, then what will happen to ex- workers? Will we have to operate and oversee the work of the machines, or will the world as we know it just crumble?
Emily:I think that yes, jobs are also created but alot of them. Also, I realize with jobs it's almost like social darwinism, if your production is down, your replaced, aka survival of the fittest.
A new beginning, or a rebeginning? That's what I mean. The city was blown up, but he specifically mentions going back to the city. How did everyone else interpret that?
Melanie-I was thoroughly upset with the way that the book ended because he didn't really give us enough information to correctly infer how the story would continue. I think that unless they find a lot more people then they will not be able to take any more action then they already have.
Class:If machines start to replace human operated jobs, how will people get paid? How would our life change if money didnt mean anything anymore?
Melanie:Like they said, another dark ages. And that means there will have to be another Renaissance.
melanie-i think that this is a new begining. they are going to make something new and something that was lost and bring that back. in a way it is kind of both i guess
Melanie-I think that the last line of the book is saying that there will be a new and better society. I htink that this "new" society will learn from the old society's mistakes. I think that this will be a never ending circle.
Do you think that Bradbury should have written a sequel? (i think that's how you spell it...) Answer at: (No more texting)Copy and paste link & click polls:smithblogs.tk
I think that because Bradbury never changed the text he would not want to change the story by adding to it. Earlier people mentioned how the story was too long so if he would have added an entire extra book he would have bored a good part of his audience.