LOF Closed Cage Match: MACBETH V. JACK/RALPH
Macbeth declares an impassioned phrase when he feels that he is caught in all the turmoil he has created. He says, "It will have blood they say. Blood will have blood... (Act 3). What did Macbeth mean? How does this ring true for Macbeth? How does this also connect to the situtation Jack and Ralph find themselves in Lord of the Flies.
Also, include any final impressions of LOF. What did you think? How did the annotating go for you? Did you feel as though there was a change in your learning/ understanding of the text? Are you seeing big connections to Macbeth?
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“Blood will have blood…” is Macbeth’s way of saying, “If you live by the sword, you die by the sword.” Basically, this means that the blood of those who have been murdered will “cry up” from the ground for vengeance. He has become even more demoralized and is only worried for his own skin, not for those whom he killed.
ReplyDeleteThis relates to Jack and Ralph because they find themselves in a blood thirsty situation. Jack has quiet literally become a savage, stealing and breaking Piggy’s glasses, while terrorizing the rest of the boys. Ralph has lost power and standing, therefore the boys have lost civilization and rules. So, when the grown-ups find them, they are in chaos and turmoil. The adult treats them like they have committed a crime and have become punishable as a result.
Macbeth is feeling and thinking two things after he kills Duncan. He is thinking how evil his actions were and he is feeling guilt. These two things are just part of the quote though, it also refers to violence more directly. Once violence starts there will almost always be more, that first violent action by Macbeth is making him feel guilty. This guilt just like the violence will eventually start to grow after it starts. Those evil actions are directly related to violence, because as the violent deeds grow they begin to become more violent and sadistic.
ReplyDeleteLord of the Flies was an interesting book that steadily got better and more tense throughout. Annotating was a little challenging at first because I was not used to it, but eventually i started to get more familiar and started to adjust. Annotating made me study the text hard and with a purpose that almost made the book enjoyable. I am seeing big connections when it come to the evilness that consists in both books almost all of them are due to the lust for power.
I think the quote refers more to guilt, but also just mistakes in general. I think Macbeth is saying that guilt is endless. Once you put yourself in a situation to feel guilty, you will never stop feeling remorse. His reclessness and muder on the quest for the throne caused him so much guilt, it wasn't worth it in the end. However, in Lord of the Flies, I think this quote refers to the bad choices made by the boys. Jack takes on a savage personality that allows him to make choices he wouldn't make otherwise. Once he lets the savage person inside take over, he cannot stop it.
ReplyDeleteLOF wasn't one of my favorite novels, but I think comparing LOF and Macbeth made both books easier to understand and more interesting. Annotating was harder for me than I thought. I really had to connect to the story.
I think that the quote "Blood will have blood" means that once violence has started, it is hard to quench.
ReplyDeleteI think that, in relevance to Macbeth, it means that since he has murdered Duncan, if he needs to murder again for some other purpose, he will.
In Lord of the Flies, it means that after the group murdered Simon, it was almost inevitable that Piggy would be next, and so he was.
Lord of the Flies, for me, was a book with a little too much description and not enough dialogue. I was confused at times. I think it helped to read Macbeth and LoF at the same time, because I think that it is easier to understand something if you can compare it to something similar. Both books were 'challenging a society', and there are lots of comparable aspects between Ralph, Jack, and Macbeth.
Annotating wasn't as big of a challenge for me as I thought it would be. I guess I didn't connect much to the story, but it helped me gather my thoughts and question my reading.
I agree with laurenh2013, I think that what this quote means is that if you live by the way you kill, then you die by the way you kill. I also think that Macbeth is more scared for himself rather than anybody else because I guess it would be his way of receiving karma. However I also agree with emilym2013 that this quote could also mean that once you’ve got a taste of “blood” it is hard to control yourself.
ReplyDeleteThis connects to Jack and Ralph because Jack is basically becoming a savage and running around trying to kill things while Ralph is running for his life. Jack killed one pig and thought of himself as the greatest and wanted more. This is why Simon ended up getting killed during their little “chant” that turned horribly bad.
I’m not so sure that I really liked this book, it isn’t horrible but I wouldn’t be reading it if we didn’t have to. Annotating was actually really annoying, it took me about twice as long to read the book because of annotating it. Even though I don’t like annotating I think that it teaches you to think about the book more deeply. I mostly wrote thoughts and questions and underlined unknown words. Reading both LOF and Macbeth I think was a good idea. So far they both have kind of the same concept. Macbeth and Lady Macbeth were hiding under “masks” while hosting Duncan and Jack wore a “mask” except this mask has two meanings. He had a literal mask of clay and dirt while also wearing a mask that allows him to do whatever without any consequences. All of these masks in both books allowed the characters to do things that would normally be unthinkable to them normally.
I interpret the quote to mean, basically, that what goes around comes around. Macbeth believes that his actions in killing Duncan and others will come back to haunt him in some way. Also, in LOF, Jack and Ralph have done things that, will also soon come back to haunt them, after breaking Piggy’s glasses, and Simon’s death, one would think that some type of wakeup call will soon be thrown down on them.
ReplyDeleteThe most overlying similarity between Macbeth and LOF, is the masks characters have worn. Macbeths wore the mask during the murder, and to kill the pig Jack wore a mask to. They did this so they could be someone else so the real one wouldn’t feel as guilty.
The annotating has been going pretty well, although I haven’t had a lot a lot of annotations, most have been what I was thinking when reading the text.
"Blood will have blood," is Macbeth's way of saying that whatever you do you should be ready for it to some back to you. If you kill then you better be ready to be killed. If you lift a sword against someone be ready to be stabbed. I think that this rings true for Macbeth because he murdered King Duncan that he should be ready to be killed himself.
ReplyDeleteThis connects to the situation that Ralph and Jack because each boy commits sins and they should be ready to take on the effects that they will have later for example: Simon's death, breaking Piggy's glasses, having a feuds against each other constantly, and other bad choices.
The annotating of LOF was pretty easy. He's a great reader and it was easy to pick out the extremly good writing that he included. Even though the book was a little dark set during the end the writing kept pulling you in. I have a lot of annotations but I used highlighters instead of a pen and notepads. Also, include any final impressions of LOF. I am seeing big things tha connect to Macbeth like karma, plots, and even some scenes.
I agree with Emily that "Blood will have blood" means that once violence starts there is no end. This is true in Macbeth because Macbeth has killed Duncan, and most likely there will be more killing and Macbeth could get killed. This also connects to Jack and Ralph because once Jack and the hunters kill boys they want to continue to kill.
ReplyDeleteWell even after the end of the book I still did not like LOF. It was really boring and it was not my type of book. I still cannot stand Piggy by the way! At the end I was like "shoot me now, Piggy will you please just be quiet!" Ugh I do not like him. I do feel a little bad but he drives me up the wall. The annotating was a little tricky because it was hard to make connections so I ended up asking a lot of questions which did help me to think more. As I read more and more of the book I started to read more metaphorically because there were so many metaphors. I read with the knowledge that the beast was evil and that nothing was as it seemed. This helped me to understand more of the text and make further connections. I am seeing some big connections to Macbeth. I hope that as Macbeth progresses there will be more, but I do like Macbeth better that LOF.
Macbeth feels guilt after killing Duncan but he also feels shame because he murdered someone in cold blood and he can not wash that away. This guilt will eventually over rule him and maybe in the end he will do something that will create the top point of his guilt. Jack and Ralph connect to this saying because they got carried away at Jack's feast and ended up killing Simon because of their confusion and their raging violent hormones and just being on an island for a long time. These acts of violence, like Macbeth's, might continue if they do not get rescued soon.
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ReplyDeleteI agree with what laurenh2013 said. If Macbeth lives by the sword (or dagger)then he'll die by the sword or (dagger). The way that this connects to Lord of the Flies is that when Jack starts beating some of his tribe-members as a way of punishment, some day one of the kids is going to cend it right back and it's not going to burn; it's not going to hurt, it's going to STING.
ReplyDeleteMy final impression of the book was that I thought that it was interesting. I didn't say I liked it. I said that I thought that It was interesting. I was dissaponited when Piggy died and Jack was talking like," I ment to do that! If you try to come back, I'll do that to you!" That part, and the part where they kill Simon made me so mad that I had to put my book down before I tore it to shreads. I swear, If I was stuck on that island, I'd be the one beating Jack! Give the runt a taste of his own medicene! >:) On a more, not so savage and otherthings that could get me in truoble in the future, note, I thought that the book was good overall , except for the annoying parts, and that it was well written and suprisingly accurate. I do believe that if people were stuck on an island, something would happen like this, except for all the murders and the "beast" thing, and that one person out of the group wouldn't want to work with the others and that they would go nuts first. On a nicer note, I did enjoy the book and thought it was INTERESTING.
Agreeing with Andy and Lauren, if Macbeth lives a life of violence and blood, that will in turn be his fate (theoretically). Also, if Jack runs a bloody, savage tribe, then someone will get the idea to murder him to gain control, which will lead to his downfall.
ReplyDeleteOver all, I thought that Lord of the Flies was an awful boook. It was poorly written and, in my opinion, just an excuse to be gross. The annotating, for me, was easy. As it progresed, I found it no easier to read the book than it was in the beginning. As far as I can tell, the only two real connecetions that Macbeth and Lord of the Flies had were madness and the struggle for power.
I agree with Lauren that "blood will have blood" means that the way you kill is the way you live. This relates to Macbeth because he kills and he is an agressive ruler and person. Not a polite king. This connects to Lord of the Flies because Jack is ruthless and that is how he lives. Savagelike. He kills whoever gets in his way. And gains power because of it. However, Ralph is the oppisite. He doesn't kill so he doesn't keep his power.
ReplyDeleteLord of the Flies definetly wasn't my favorite book but It wasn't my least favorite either. It was different and showed how kids and teenagers wouldn't be able to govern themselves. I also like how Ralph realizes that Piggy was important to him. Like ourselves, we need someone who is important to us. However, we don't realize they are important until they are gone. Raplh doesn't realize how important Piggy was until Piggy had died. The annotating was pretty easy for me. As I read more and more of the book, It made more sense. The one big connection between lord of the files and Macbeth is the hunger for power. Jack is power hungry and so is Macbeth.
To me “Blood will get more blood” refers to the reversion to savagery due to unjust violence. It shows that, as one begins to kill, their tolerance for bloodshed increases until they begin to find pleasure in killing until they do not know how to stop. This concept can be seen in Macbeth. Macbeth probably did not begin as a bloodthirsty little boy, but acclimated to violence through battle. I doubt Macbeth would have had the will to kill Duncan had he not had the background of a ferocious soldier. Even still, killing Duncan was a struggle. Killing the guards was much easier as Macbeth’s conscience began to deteriorate. He then was able to begin his reign of terror. The violence he displayed began to possess Macbeth and he was not able to stop the slaughter. I therefore disagree with the interpretation stating “Blood will get more blood” refers more to karma, the way one kills is the way they will die. The justification for this lies more in the Lord of the Flies, as this quote also fits the actions of Jack although he does not die or pay for his actions through physical punishment. His punishment comes more in the form of the ruination of his soul.
ReplyDeleteIn Lord of the Flies, Ralph noticed that the boys changed from innocent children to savages. The Jack that first landed on the island did not exist anymore. Jack, like Macbeth, chose a mask in order to seek power and violence without feeling ashamed. Both are unable to take off that mask later. Jack goes from being unable to kill a piglet to an obsession with hunting to killing and/or beating his fellow boys (e.g. Simon, Piggy, Sam, Eric, and eventually even Ralph). What is even more horrendous is that Jack had no reason to kill. Violence became his heart and soul. He could not stop himself if he tried. Repeated violence turns perfectly decent human beings into psychopaths. It has happened repeatedly in history due to wars, slavery, racism, and abuse. Once a person heads down that road, there is no return. This allows“Blood [to] get more blood.”
I personally did not care for Lord of the Flies due to its continual darkness. I know Golding planned to show humans the corruption that lies behind their kind, that no form of government is perfect, and that evil exists everywhere in any form. He did his job quite well. Still, what kind of a person writes about sticking innocent children on an island and leaving them for starvation, dehydration, death, and war? These boys are just children, about the same age of my little brother. What kind of sick person even thinks about children murdering other children or twelve-year-olds falling off cliffs to have their brains spill out? I do not find Macbeth near as disturbing because those are adults committing the atrocities, but when it comes to corrupting little children, it horrifies me. For this reason, I found these last chapters difficult to read. I knew I needed to finish the book, but I did not want to have to watch Piggy or Simon die nor did I want to visualize the twins being tortured. These chapters were just too dark. If I could have been on that island, I would have slugged Jack and Robert, and pushed Piggy out of the way of the boulder. The character came so alive for me that I hated reading about their agony and was about ready to cry with Ralph at the end of the book, “For the loss of innocence, the darkness of the human heart, and the fall through the air of a true, wise friend called Piggy.” Golding wanted to create an air of horrification, but I found it too dark and heavy.
I found annotating this book to be moderatly simple, although there were times where I was just too horrified or angry to write much. Sometimes I just could not put my thoughts into words. I found quite a few examples of text-to-text connections and examples of symbolism. However, the majority of my annotations were reflections and thoughts. I had a hard time finding text to self-connection. I wrote my annotations on sticky notes and labeled them T for thoughts/reflections/questions/predictions, TT for text-to-text connections, TW for text to world connections, TS for text to self-connections, and S for symbolism. I think that, by annotating and therefore noticing my anger at some of the text, I better understood the impact the book was leaving on me and began to Golding’s intentions.
ReplyDeleteBlood will have blood means that no matter what you do, such as put on a mask, the blood is still blood. I think that by saying this Macbeth knew that he really had no excuse about killing Duncan. This connects for Lord of the Flies because Jack puts on a mask when even though he still realizes that he still killed.
ReplyDeleteI thought that Lord of the Flies was okay. At some points in the book however, I really couldn't stand it. At others, I actually kind of liked it. The annotating went pretty well. At first it was hard, but as i was reading it became so much easier. I am seeing connections to Macbeth, especially with the need for power.
I agree with Katiew2013 on that "blood will have blood" means that once the violence starts there will not be an end to it. Macbeth will just continue to kill since he has killed Duncan and he might be killed himself possibly. In the Lord of the Flies when the hunters and Jack kill they want to continue to kill.
ReplyDeleteLord of the Flies was pretty good. I thought that it was a little odd at times I didn't like the annotating because I am the type of guy that likes to read fast and finish the book. Annotating made me take my time which really irked me. The main connection between this book and Macbeth is the need for power for sure.
I think that when Macbeth says, “Blood will have blood…” he means that doing evil things causes evil results. I also think it means that once the evil comes out in you, it will continue to come out, and wont stop. Meaning that if you do something bad, for example killing someone, then bad things will happen to you, or you will continue to kill. This applies to Macbeth because he was so hungry for power that he killed Duncan, and immediately after he started going crazy. I know that Macbeth is a tragic hero, so I assume that this caused some of his downfall. This applies to Jack and Ralph because they were together for a while, but once they separated it was good versus bad, Ralph was good, and Jack was bad. The evil first came out of Jack when he killed the pig. After that he was unable to stop killing things, and it shows this throughout the rest of the book.
ReplyDeletePersonally, I was not a huge fan of Lord of the Flies. It just had no appeal to me because I couldn’t relate to it because I have never wanted to be on an island without any parents. The annotating was ok, however I don’t think it helped me understand the book any better then I would have if I hadn’t annotated. I see a few similarities to Macbeth, but for the most part I don’t really connect the two. One similarity, is the tone of both texts is normally rather sad, or calm. There are never really any happy and excited scenes.
I agree with Katie and Emily that when Macbeth “blood will have blood,” I think he means that once violence starts it spreads like wildfire and is very hard to stop. This pertains to Macbeth because with the killing of Duncan many other killings are waiting to happen. Because Macbeth has proved to himself that he can kill, it is more likely to happen now. This is similar to LOF because once Simon died, it became more evident that another would die or be killed. This was true with Piggy. Jack also becomes very savage and wants to kill, and Ralph begins to run for his life.
ReplyDeleteIn my personal opinion, LOF was not a very good book. I had trouble picking it up each night, almost forcing myself to read it. I don’t normally read adventure/survival because that’s not normally what I read. The annotating got easier as it went along. In some parts, I have lots of annotations and then there are parts where there aren’t annotations for 5 pages. I found it easier than I thought it would be. In some parts, I was hard-pressed to find connections to my life, but overall annotating went fairly well for me. I wouldn’t really say that there was a big change in my learning because of annotating, but annotating did make me slow down and really think about my reading. Though this helped a little, it was not super-duper helpful.
One big connection I saw to Macbeth was the whole mask issue. It was interesting how both Jack and Macbeth use the masks to cover up a killing and not feel guilty about it. Did Golding specifically make these connections, or did they happen on accident?
It almost seems like Macbeth is saying don't fight fire with fire, because you'll get a bigger fire. Just like if you fight spilled blood by spilling blood, you'll get more blood. I don't know. Also, my dad told me a lot about the LOF, and he kept the book for me to read ever since he was very little. Once I did read it, I realized it wasn't as bad as he made it out to be. He said most of the boys on the island were killed and eaten. Comparing that with what actually happened, I'm not sure which one's worse. I was seeing connections to Macbeth left and right. The mask, the evil, the internal torment, it was all there. I liked LOF.
ReplyDeleteI believe the phrase blood will have blood is a way of saying once the first blood is spilled then more blood follows. The same applies with killing and evil. Once you do it, once the barrier is broken, a path has been made and it is easier to do it again because there is already a path to follow. The more it happens the more worn the path becomes and the easier it is to travel. In this way blood will have blood. In Macbeth, Macbeth kills Duncan and soon after that, the guards. In LOF after the first pig is killed the blood begins to flow. Quickly after the first pig was killed came the sow, and after that came Simon, Piggy and almost Ralph. In LOF it started innocent enough but it turned in to a blood bath.
ReplyDeleteI found LOF to be extremely depressing but brilliantly written. The use of symbolism was astounding. The irony that the kids were rescued by an adult boat doing the same thing they were just doing before it came is astounding. Annotating for me was a bit of a chore. I wish I could have read the book just to read the book and not have to worry about commenting every few pages. Also, I found I really am not very good at it since I don’t quite know the expectation of it. Anybody else find that to be a problem?
I agree that "blood will have blood" means that if you live by the sword you die by the sword. Violence only creates more violence. I think that this in a way means kerma, if you do evil things then in one way or another something bad will happen to you.This would mean that because Macbeth has spent his life killing in battle and also bringing himself to kill duncan that this will be his fate. In some way he will die a bloody death. This connects to Loard of the Flies because after Simon's death violence on the island increaced. The value of a human life is lost to the boys and to them its all just a game.
ReplyDeleteI liked the Loard of the Flies, not for the actual story line but for the message. I think that it does an incredable job of showing the evil that is in everyone. I think that this book is very powerful and though it is not particularly plesent to read about the corruption of young boys, it really makes you think about what you would do in this situation. It makes one wonder about weather or not they would give into the evil that is inside of them. Everyone wants to say that they would be able to rise above it, but if actually in that situation this book points out that not many of us would.
The Loard of the Flies and Macbeth have a very similar message. Both show the darkness of human nature and how power can bring people to do terrible things. These books both emphasize how no matter who you are, a young school boy or a great warrier, the evil in human nature comes through in everyone. Power is definatly a big connecton between the two books. It is a main theme in both books.
I think that Macbeth is trying to show that a wrong will lead to another wrong. Blood will make more blood. It's kinda like a lie. It starts out small but then that lie leads to another and another until it is just huge and I think that is what is going to happen to Macbeth. He will be all high and mighty and then it's all going to blow up in his face. THen he is goign to fall and that is what is going to make him a tragic hero. But his wrong will lead to more wrong and that is what I think he is trying to say.
ReplyDeleteI think that I am putting this on the probably won't read it again list. But then again a lot of books are on the list so it wasn't to bad. This book included a lot of describing and symbolism. Everything new that came into teh story had to be described to a T. I liked all of the surprises that came up like the boat that left or Piggy dieing. It really surprised me like WOW didn't expect that! It really showed me how things are not that great until they are gone. It reminded me of a song that I can't remember the name of. I think that annotating was kinda hard for me cause like Conner, I didn't know what to do or what the expectations were. I think that the biggest connection is how power hungry people are. It really shows how much people are messed up.
To me, this quote means that you should do unto others what you would have them do unto you, because what comes around goes around. If you live by the sword and all you do is hunt and kill, then eventually others will do the same to you. Two wrongs never make a right.violence will create more violence, and blood creates more blood.when the evil comes out in you, then it will continue to grow even if the evil was little to start out with.I think that this will happen to Macbeth. He only got powerful by using evil and killing, so the evil will grow and more blood will be shed only this time it will be Macbeth's blood.In LOF the fighting and killing just became a game and it got so out of control that Simon and Piggy both ended up getting killed.
ReplyDeletePersonally, i enjoyed reading LOF although i have read books that i liked better.I enjoyed all of the twists and surprises that came. Annotating was very hard at first. I didn't really understand what i was suppose to do. As i continued to read it became easier for me to annotate because there was more for me to comment on. The only learning experience that happen for me was that i actually had to slow down and make connections for my annotating. It made me think more when i was reading. The main connection i saw with Macbeth and LOF was the power. People go crazy when they are desperate for power and control.
I agree with other people above when they said that they thought that the phrase “It will have blood they say. Blood will have blood…” that he means once you kill one thing and spill their blood, you won’t be able to stop, and more blood will be spilled. This is true because once he killed Duncan, he “got angry” and randomly killed those two guards. When he killed the guards, he barely thought about it.
ReplyDeleteThis relates to LOF because after Jack/Jack’s tribe killed Simon, they didn’t stop and killed Piggy and attempted to kill Ralph. The first kill is always the worst, and after that, killing doesn’t seem like anything to the murderer.
I was mad at the end of LOF, I was expecting a little more exciting ending. To be honest, I was thinking that Ralph was going to get killed, and I was interested to see how it was going to be described. Another thing that pissed me off was when the naval guy commented on the way that the boys were acting. ‘They were “English school boys” and they should behave in an orderly manner!’ I think that’s bogus because I doubt “oh so proper English adults” would act much different in that situation.
Annotating was definitely a hard thing for me. I chose to highlight everything with highlighters, and it seemed to take FOREVER!!! I’m usually a pretty fast reader, but this book dragged on and on and on! I don’t really think my perspective of the book would be changed if I hadn’t annotated.
In comparison to Macbeth, I felt the main connection between the two books is bloodlust. Once you kill something, it’s tricky to satisfy your need for blood, and if continued murder is the only satisfaction, then people will not have a problem with it. The characters that need blood in the books are Macbeth, Jack and Roger. They were corrupted by the changing and overthrowing of their systems, causing their minds to be warped by bloodlust.
“Blood will have blood.” Makes it sound like that Macbeth thinks that when you do something wrong there will be a consequence to go along with it. For right now what I think rings true with Macbeth is that after he commited the murders he really felt quilty, and I have a feeling that, that will not be his only consequence. I think this relates to Jack and Ralph because I think that they realized that once they do one thing wrong they are going to continue doing things wrong and there will definitely be consequences.
ReplyDeleteI thought that LOF was an okay book. The annotating really helped me to understand the book better and if I had not annotated I don’t think I could have understood it. Also yes I am seeing the connections with Macbeth and I think that they help us to understand them.
This is Macbeth's way of saying that blood is the path he has chosen, and that a man who chooses the path of murder and follows that path will lead to a bloody death. He is saying that bloodshed only leads to more bloodshed and that he has sealed his fate. This rings true for Macbeth because he is a tragic hero and all tragic heroes have a flaw that leads to their downfall.
ReplyDeleteThis is similair to Lord of the Flies because Jack has chosen the path of the hunter (the path of blood) and this leads to the death of Piggy and Simon. Ralph does not recognize the problem and try to stop it until it is too late, adding to the violence.
As for final impressions, the annotating went really slow because I try too hard to make sure I have a good number of sticky notes and it slows me down a lot. My understanding didn't really change because I had read this book before for a class. I did, however notice big similarities between LOF and Macbeth.
I believe that "Blood will have blood." spoken by Macbeth means in general that once you have experienced bloodshed, more bloodshed is sure to follow. It means not only that, but the blood which you have shed, will take blood in return. Such as karma as said before.
ReplyDeleteAs for Macbeth, this means bad news because to cover up his tracks he will have to take more lives. We can already see this beginning, for he killed the guards. All these murders will take a toll on him however, leading to his downfall.
This applies to Jack and Ralph because once Jack got over the fear of bloodshed and put his "mask" on, he could not get enough of it-almost craving killing. All these murders take their tolls by the slaughters of peers and morality.
Lord of the Flies as a concept really truly disgusts me. Being a human being with flaws myself I prefer not to think of the awful cruelties of human capabilities. As a book however it is very good at drawing parallels and connections. Golding was brilliant in his knack for symbols and motifs.
Between the two literature pieces I notice the same human flaws explored.
When Macbeth says "It will have blood they say. Blood will have blood...” it means that blood or death will always lead to more blood or death. It’s like a bag of Lays you can’t have just one. This happens in both Macbeth and Lord of the Flies, in Macbeth Macbeth doesn’t just kill Duncan he has to kill the guards, then Banquo. The bloody trail cannot only last for one murder, blood leads to more blood. In Lord of the Flies it is the same thing, after they kill the first pig its leads to them killing more pigs. From pigs they move on to people they first kill Simon then Piggy. These killings lead to the attempts at Ralphs life.
ReplyDeleteAfter finishing Lord of Flies I have found that I still hate it. Personally I really don’t like the plot and the way it ended was very disappointing to me. The annotating made the book even worse, I cannot read a book and write in it at the same time it didn’t agree with me. I also think that doing this didn’t help me read the book it hindered rather than helped me. Throughout reading Lord of the Flies I saw tons of connections with Macbeth in the grabs for power and character roles.
My best guess at what Macbeth meant by “It will have blood they say. Blood will have blood…” is that there is no escaping the after effects of what’s already been done. Blood will have blood is basically saying that after violent acts have been committed, then it’s like a chain reaction, and it can’t be stopped. Macbeth is guilty for it too, just as Ralph is in Lord of the Flies for participating in killing Simon. Blood will have blood and that is inevitable in the environments the characters were in.
ReplyDeleteLord of the Flies was bizarre. Despite the fact that I hated the characters, I enjoyed the story and writing style. It was very descriptive and I have to say, quite a bit morbid, and that’s my kind of writing. But I genuinely hated the annotating and I felt like it took away from the story itself since I was too concentrated on my mind. I felt like I had a change in my understanding of the text but not in a positive way. Instead of delving into the story more, I was driving away from it since I was thinking about outside connections and figurative language and how I felt while reading. But I did not like that. I wanted to read the story.
I think the one big connection I can make between Macbeth and Lord of the Flies is simply the way things won’t stop once they start. Macbeth killed Duncan, then he had to kill the servants, then Duncan’s sons got suspicious of him… and while we’re only through act two I can see it’ll probably continue in this way. Same thing happened with Lord of the Flies. Once Jack started his own tribe, more than half of the boys became savages, then they murdered Simon, then Piggy, and it all kept accelerating until it was the savages versus Ralph on a burning island. I also think that I see a bit of Jack in Macbeth since Jack possesses that tragic hero quality of arrogance and pride. He’s also a natural leader who isn’t afraid to kill. Both Macbeth and Jack let some other force take them over and practically control them. Lady Macbeth got Macbeth to commit murder, and Jack’s overriding thoughts about tribes and hunting rather than sensibility. Even though we’re talking about Shakespeare’s play versus a relatively modern book, there are many similarities between the two stories.
When Macbeth says "blood will have blood..." he means that death is a fact of life, so murder will persist in the future. Macbeth is a fighter, so he will continue to kill people in his quest to become king. In Lord of the Flies, death also appeared to be in the near future for someone else on the island, hence more blood was shed.
ReplyDeleteLOF was honestly a quite intriguing book, but it was also a bit violent for my taste. Especially the pig slaughtering scenes. Annotating helped me connect to both Macbeth and LOF because I was able to reflect back on my notes and compare the two.
I think that the quote, "Blood will have blood" means that when you commit a crime like killing somebody, it will somehow come back to you like karma. I also agree with some of the other posts that when the violence has been broken out, it will continue to spread and the murderer will have a hard time stopping.
ReplyDeleteThis relates to Lord of the Flies because of when Jack and Ralph killed Simon. They have been on the island for such a long time that they have gone insane. I believe that Macbeth has also kind if gone insane because after he killed Duncan, he got more violent and killed the guards. When somebody is not in the right state of mind, they can get a little different and do things that they would not usually do.
At the end of Lord of the Flies, I did not like the book any more than I did when I first started reading it. The book, to me, was not very entertaining and I wasn't a big fan of the authors writing style. The annotating at the beginning was a little hard because I was thinking too hard about what to write or how to connect the book to my life. It did, however, progressivly get easier.
"Blood will have blood" means that when blood is taken or spilt, as Macbeth has done to many, than the person who spilled this blood will have their blood spilt. It almost sounds like an Old English description of karma. What goes around comes around. I believe that this rings true for Macbeth because he spilled Duncan's blood as well as killing the two innocent guards. He has been suspected and because of what he has done he will be killed and his blood will be spilt by someone. This relates to Jack and Ralph because they realize there will be consequences to their actions. Especially for Jack. He is very much like Macbeth with the tragic hero qualities he possesses and the need for power that overtakes him.
ReplyDeleteLOF was alright. It wasn't necessarily the type of book I would have chosen to read, although the annotations did take something away from the book for me. It's very hard to put my thoughts and feelings on what I'm reading down into a book. I pick up on what I'm reading regardless of if I like it or not, and I felt as if the annotations had me overanalyzing or putting too much thought in because I have so much thought as a reader anyway. I can definitely see some big connections to Macbeth which was a definite plus in reading this book. I'm sure the connections will continue to grow as we get into Macbeth more.
I understood the quote as almost the snowball effect. Macbeth is feeling so guilty that he believes nothing good can come again after his wrongdoings. In Lord of the Flies this relates to the fact that the bad decisions made by the boys keeps building up evilness inside them and it becomes to late to turn back.
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion Lord of the Flies was not a good book. I do not understand why anyone would want to read a book that shows evil taking over a group of young boys. It can be interesting in the way that you get to see the human interactions between each other until it got almost disturbing. The annotations honestly did not help me that much. It took a lot of time and I felt like I would focus too much on finding things to highlight. However it did help me connect to Macbeth and since it slowed me down I probably comprehended it more than I would have without annotating.
I agree with Emily M. and Katie W. “Blood will have more blood” simply means that once killing starts, it is not going to cease easily. This is proved in Macbeth. Macbeth killed Duncan, but by doing that, he also had to kill the guards to cover up his story. I predict that this will not be the last time blood will be shed. This has a connection to Lord of the Flies because once Jack killed that first pig, he could not stop killing. He even went so far as to kill a human being.
ReplyDeleteLord of the Flies was definitely an interesting book. It was not the best book I have ever read, or the easiest to read. Annotating the book did help me understand the book better, but it did not help me connect with the book much. It was a very well written book, but it was not the type of book I enjoy reading. I respect Golding, his writing style, and this book; I just could not connect with it very easily. There are many connections between Lord of the Flies and Macbeth; but the main one is the desire for power. Macbeth wanted to be king, so he murdered Duncan. Jack wanted to be the chief, so he turned violent to try and prove his dominance. Lust for power can lead people to do unsettling things.
"It will have blood they say. Blood will have blood..." means death leads to more death, blood to more blood, or more simply put means what goes around comes around. Macbeth as a tragic hero will most likely die completing the chain of deaths. This relates to LOF because Jack has become savage and thirsting for power as he has for the whole book and Ralph has lost power.
ReplyDeleteLOF was an unusual book. The annotating went fine for me as I think a lot about a book, but I never write it down. Reading LOF and Macbeth together gave me a better understanding of both texts. Macbeth and LOF had big connections like the lust for power and how human nature works.
Macbeth’s quote, “Blood will have blood” may refer to two things. The first interpretation is that once blood has been spilt, only more violence can follow. The other analysis of the quote is that the person who first spilt blood will receive their comeuppance.
ReplyDeleteIn Shakespeare’s Macbeth, Macbeth lives true to this quote because after killing Duncan, he knows he has committed a terrible deed and can expect a terrible event to occur in his life or death as occurs in many of Shakespeare’s tragedies. By killing an innocent person Macbeth may also be led to commit deeds ten times worse because his moral boundaries have been demolished by the terrible act.
In William Golding’s Lord of the Flies Jack falls under the same category as Macbeth because he has killed. At first he killed for survival, but not long after he began to crave the power to control the fate of other beings. By painting a mask on his face, Jack was able to shed his inhibitions and act as he pleased, killing at leisure. In Lord of the Flies Jack quickly fell prey to this evil, however Macbeth realizes his faults and fights the evil until he is forced to succumb to it.
The final chapters of Lord of the Flies caused a plethora of feelings in me. I really enjoyed Golding’s writing style and his detailed descriptions. In the concluding chapters I felt sad, and angry. I was sad that Simon and Piggy were both killed, and angry with everyone on the island who overlooked this because they had been corrupted by Jack and the evil within him. I was also angry with the way that Jack handled many situations, just killing or hurting people to achieve what he wanted.
The annotating allowed me to think deeply about what was happening in the novel, and also to organize my thoughts. I will Annotate in a personal book of mine soon to see how it compares with times I have previously read it.
i thought that the book was very intense at the end. With all the people dying like Simon and Piggy. I just think everyone has on the island(except Ralph) finally lost their marbles. The annotating didn't work for me. I like to visualize the book when i read. The stopping to write comments kind of distracted me. I didn't like it very much.
ReplyDeleteI agree with what edmondl2013 said about the quote how death leads to death and blood leads to blood. In a tragic play there are often many deaths. Both murders and suicides are often present. This is like the Lord of the Flies how Jack and his Hunters kill Piggy and Simon. Both crimes were committed to exert their power as the dominating force on the island.
The quote is saying that once blood is drawn, blood will have to be drawn for revenge. Basically, he’s saying that once violence starts there will be a never-ending cycle of violence, where everyone needs revenge. I think this will ring true for Macbeth, and that he will probably have to kill someone else, or else be killed himself. This also connects to Lord of the Flies. In Lord of the Flies, the blood starts when they kill the first pig. From there, it just goes further and further, until they finally kill people. After the first kill, drawing blood becomes so normal for the boys they start hunting for people.
ReplyDeleteI think Lord of the Flies could have been a lot more exciting. I just did not enjoy the book very much. On the other hand, I did understand the book much better by annotating it than I would have if I didn’t. Thinking about the reading makes the points the author is trying to make more apparent, instead of just seeing what is actually happening in the story. This book strikes me as very similar to Macbeth, with similar themes of good vs. evil, and examining human nature.
I think that Macbeth means that when something bad is done, something bad will happen to those who have done bad. Its like the idea of karma, and it will come back to haunt you. This comes true for Macbeth because he commits murder, and he is a tragic hero. So, he commits murder and in doing so something bad will happen to him. That bad thing is Macbeth’s death. This also happens with Jack and Ralph because Ralph wants power and is willing to do anything for power, and in the end he is almost killed. Jack is also hungry for power and is willing to do anything for power. The bad thing with Jack is that in the end he really could differentiate between having the “mask” on or off.
ReplyDeleteI didn’t particularly like the Lord of the Flies. It seemed to leave things out, and overall had a strange story. I don’t really understand why this book is so praised, or why it would be considered a classic. The annotating for Lord of the Flies was irritating sometimes. I didn’t always know what to write or how the annotating should be done, and I didn’t really have anything to say all the time. Reading Macbeth and Lord of the Flies at the same time were helpful in some instances. They both showed me how people can be very power hungry, and the things they are willing to do for power. The only connections I saw between LOF and Macbeth is the idea of wanting power, and the willingness to do anything for that power.
I think Macbeth means once someone gets something or a taste of something they will want more and more of it. Like how he gets a hint from the witches that he will be king and so he kills Duncan. He gets a taste of power and wants more. This is true for Ralph and Jack Jack couldn't have power in the beginning but he got a taste of it and would do anything for it. Now he has power over almost everyone.
ReplyDeleteI didn't really like this book. It was really weird to me. The annotating went alright but it didn't really change my reading. I have connections with the book, that's great. There are some really big connections to Macbeth through this book. Like with Jack and power and the evil throughout each.
Macbeth meant that if someone kills, they will be killed or if someone hurts, they will be hurt. I like the way that bmahoney said it. An old english version of karma. Macbeth has done wrong to many people so far in this play and so far not much wrong has been done to him. I think that this quote runs true and that soon wrong will be done to Macbeth. It only seems fair that some wrong does occur to Macbeth. This quote is connected to LOF because Jack has also spilled blood. He can be held partially responsible for the death of Piggy and even more so for the death of Simon. Even though the book ends without exactly telling us what happens to Jack I think that something will happen to him to make this quote also run true for him.
ReplyDeleteThe LOF to me was horrible. The writing style stunk and made it hard to follow, the story line was confusing, and the book above all just didnt agree with me. I do think however that it has some great discussion points. Like what forms of government fail and which kinds thrive? What kind of leaders do people follow/look for when they are in extreme conditions? What will people do for survival? The book itself in my opinion was not all that great but there were some good outcomes of reading this book. I did like the annotating part because of my style of annotation. I found that i question a lot and i remember the questions that i ask. Annotating helped me remember my questions and be able to answer them later on throughout the book.
My first thoughts of what Macbeth said is basically what's done is done, no turning back now. Relating this to LOF, though, I had to read what others put down, I get the idea of "If someone kills, they will be killed...(michelec2013)." This, although, contrasts to Lord of the Flies. For instance, Jack, the ruthless, rule breaking, snobby, mean... (ok, i'm done) of the bunch, ends up being rewarded for his sins. All the kids join him, he's treated like a king, and so on. I thought the book was great, although disappointing. No drama and action until the end of the book. My heart was racing!
ReplyDeleteThis turmoil has created much killing and because of it there may be another war. I agree with Lauren H in her, “Live by the sword die by the sword.” Those people killed should demand vengeance about being killed for no other reason than power. Jack started killing the boar and huge pig. Then they got its dance and anything that moved if not with them would die. They killed Simon and Piggy because Simon he was the “beasty.”
ReplyDeleteLof was a good book not my favorite. Annotating seemed pretty easy after I figured out what it was. Annotating was good because you could go back and answer questions you had from earlier and help answer questions from the next reading. Definitely Macbeth and LoF seem very much the same what lengths people will go to.
Blood will have blood means that when there is any blood more blood will deffently follow. Macbeth sees him killing Duncan as only the begining of the end for him. All of the blood that he has ever spilled and all of the blood that he will spill is coming back to haunt him and taunt him now.
ReplyDeleteThis relates back to Lord Of The Flies because Jack has literaly become a savage and is now thirsty for blood and violance. Now that he is thirsty for it only more will come of it and now there is no order on the island; marshall law has been declared.
The book was very interesting it isn't one that I would pick up and read but it was good. The anotating helped some what but I think it felt more like a hassel then a help.
How does this also connect to the situtation Jack and Ralph find themselves in Lord of the Flies.
ReplyDeleteMacbeth means that you will die by the sword if you live by the sword. It's true for Macbeth, because he kills Duncan and then is himself murdered for a similar reason. This is especially true for Jack, because he becomes a savage, craving for blood. He could most likely suffer the same fate as Macbeth if his supporters grow tire of his leadership and decide to kill him.
LOF, I found, was a bizarre book. It was really weird and some parts were confusing. The anotating helped somewhat, but not a lot.
I agree that Macbeth’s quote “Blood will have blood” means once blood has been shed only more blood can be shed; also what goes around comes around. After killing Duncan Macbeth kills two of his guards because he got mad about the death of his king and to cover up what he had done. This connects to LOF because Jack was the first to kill a pig. Once he killed one thing he couldn’t stop he kept killing because he liked the authority it gave him. He was Jack but once he put his mask on all signs of Jack were lost and he was a savage hunter killing for power. Jack even went so far he killed a human being. Ralph feels guilty after participating in Simon’s death, Macbeth feels guilty after killing Duncan; but Jack feels no guilt from killing only power so he keeps killing.
ReplyDeleteLord of the Flies was not what I expected at all. For me this book dragged on and on. I didn’t really like this book. The thought of young boys becoming uncivilized and wanting to kill just wasn’t appealing to me. The character I liked the least was Jack because he only wanted power and he didn’t care what happened to his friends. I liked Ralph because he wanted to keep things in order and wanted to be a leader to protect his friends. Annotating was annoying at sometimes. It is hard to focus on reading and writing everything that is in your head down. I like to concentrate on the book and not be interrupted. I saw tons of connections to LOF and Macbeth. In both books there are characters craving for attention and power and they are willing to do anything to get it. Power is also the main theme in both books.
"Blood will have blood" is the idea that how you approach any situation, violent or not, is usually the way it will end. If you go into war slaughtering thousands of people, the war will end with one side enough of the other side to make them surrender. However, if you go into a conflict diplomatically, it will probably end in a treaty or law. Tying into Lord of the Flies, Ralph tries to solve the conflict at the beginning of the book (No Adult Leadership) by creating a set of law and becoming a leading figure. But, as Jack strives for power, he changes the conditions of the conflict by implementing violence. This ends in both Simon and Piggy being killed. So, my translation of "Blood will have blood," would by How something starts, is how it will end.
ReplyDeleteMy final impressions of Lord of the Flies were mixed. It was clear that the violence on the island was elevating, but I didn't suspect that it would end in Simon and Piggy's deaths. In the end, I really realized what a good book Lord of the Flies was, and found a relation to Steven King's quote on the back.
I think the quote means that once there is blood, it will keep coming. Kind of like the domino effect. Once the kids on the island started resorting to savage ways, they all became beast like, and just killed without thinking about it. For example, they were so sure that Simon was the beast, they just killed him with no reason.
ReplyDeleteI was very surprised with the way the book ended. I didn't think Simon or Piggy would die. I thought that either Ralph or Jack would die. I'm also surprised that the boys were rescued. I thought it was going to be a cliff hanger ending and we wouldn't know what happened to them. Overall, I really liked the book, and am glad I read it.
When Macbeth says "It will have blood they say, blood will have blood..." I think he means that blood will have blood. He killed King Duncan and he "had blood". But as they often say your sin will find you out, that blood that he had from the king is going to result with more blood. Plus, because Macbeth is a tragic hero, I assume his own blood eventually.
ReplyDeleteI will be honest, I hated Lord Of The Flies. I didn't want to read it because my older brother and sister have read it and told me how it ended, and I hated the ending and therefore the book. Yet as I read deeper I started liking it. The beginning was a complete bore, but as I got to the end I couldn't help but like it. The relationship between Ralph and Piggy was really cool I thought, and I liked Ralph. It wasn't fair that Piggy or Simon died, but that's what added to the reality of the book.
Also, I have to say I LOVED being able to anitate the book. Especially in the beginning where I did not enjoy it. By the way, did anyone besides me notice how often the author described things by calling them pink? Maybe he likes the color pink?
ReplyDeleteWhen Macbeth says that "Blood will have blood," I think that it is his way of saying that those who live by the sword die by the sword. Also, I think that it is his way of showing karma. By causing people to bleed, he is going to be cut open eventually, maybe not physically, but by the guilt of killing Duncan just because he wanted to be king. This relates to Lord of the Flies in that Jack has let voilence become his main persuasive power. His need for power, which in this case would be control of the other boys, has caused him to put on a different mask. He no longer cares about the boys or getting off the island, he just wants to become the most powerful boy.
ReplyDeleteI didn't like Lord of the Flies very much just because I don't like the type of genre it is. The annotating was fairly difficult just because the book was boring to me, so I wasn't thinking about as much as other books that I have read. Usually books thatI read cause me to do some outside research about something that is contained in them. Lord of the Flies didn't influence me to even research the author at all.
By comparing Macbeth with LOF I have gained a lot of understanding of just how dark this book is. Last spring I read LOF but when I studied it then I saw a completely different side. We studied how the boys were trying to make a utopia for themselves and how it ended up in blood. This time we are looking more so at why there is blood and why ruling by fear has been repeated so often in history. Dictatorship has been the death of many rulers. And it is no exception for Jack and Macbeth. The way that Jack uses cruel words (especially when he creates the image of the beastie) and small powerful actions is very similar to the killing Macbeth uses to keep his power. The way they rule is unsustainable and they will fall. History shows that dictatorships do not last. Just look at Hitler. His fear driven rule only lasted for little over a decade. He made people fear him and do things only because they feared him and the same is true for Macbeth and Jack. In Macbeth and in Hitler’s case death was the result of their fear exploiting rule. I am having a harder time seeing Jack’s punishment however I am sure there are many. This is where the quote, “blood will have blood”, comes from. People who terrorize others will be terrorized themselves whether it is mentally or people rebelling against you.
ReplyDeleteThe LOF I would say is a book worth reading, once. It is very hard to read but in the end you gain understanding of human nature. I hate to dwell on the darkness and cruelty of these two books and it kills me to read them and analyze them. The wickedness of Macbeth and Jack is horrible to have to dwell on and I detest doing it. However, it is good to recognize that humans are not always good. It is ignorant to pretend that we are all perfect so it is important to hear these awful things and respect that they are a part of life. People may not all go around killing each other but everyone has anger and hate inside of them whether they choose to act on it or not. Annotating is also very hard to do while trying to take in the book (like taking notes during a movie, you can’t concentrate on two things and get the most out of each). However it is a possible task and I am doing it.
When he says blood will have blood then he might mean that if you killed in blood then that is the way you die. I don't no but that makes some sense. In LOF things started when first blood was spilled and then truly ended when the final blood was spilled.
ReplyDeleteWhen it came to the ending of LOF, I wanted it to be over. This book showed the horror of man kinda at its worst. And in young boys too. Annotating was hard I think in paragraph and there was no room to put thoughts in on the sides so a lot of what I thought was shortened. Through out the rest of the book I could see it tie in with Macbeth. You have to wonder if the writer took some ideas from Macbeth. This book scares me some. The possibility of horror those boys could do were endless. So over all I didn't like the book. It was to real.
Now that the book is done, I am starting to see some connections between it and Macbeth. When Macbeth says "Blood will have blood," he is saying that he can't stop killing. Now that he has murdered two people it's getting easier for him and he is not thinking about it as much.
ReplyDeleteAt the end of LOF, some of the questions were answered that i had asked earlier in the book. One of them was what would happen if there were no order, and no control over things. This was answered in the end of the book. When the conch, symbolizing order, peace, and control, was broken, everything fell into chaos. Things were headed in that direction, but when the conch was shattered, it was the final straw. Earlier in the book i picked up on something interesting. I thought that piggy would somehow die by jack's doing. I thought this because his name is piggy and jack is so set on hunting pigs. I thought nothing that brutal could happen, but then when simon was murdered, i knew it would happen. So, at the end of the book, we see the brutal strength of man, and what we are able to do. We are capable of great good but also great destruction.
As for the annotations, i didn't find it incredibly hard, but it was sort of difficult. It was hard to come up with a style to go by, and there wasn't a whole lot of room to write down thoughts. I think i would've rather just read the book because it was kind of hard to be thinking about that and having to come up with good annotations. Overall i thought it was a good book. It was brutal, but a good eye opener and the author did a great job in presenting this.
ReplyDelete“Blood will have blood.” Macbeth means that once violence begins, more violence and trouble will occur. In Macbeth, Macbeth kills Duncan for the throne, which leads him to kill Banquo, the servants, and so forth. In Lord of the Flies, Ralph and Jack become more violent as their stay on the island drags on. The death of Simon brings the death of Piggy, and so on. The quote is basically saying that once, violence, murder, and death occur, it will cause more disaster and the cycle continues.
ReplyDeleteFinishing LOF was the most amazing feeling! The book started out slow, but the end and conclusion was the best part. Throughout the whole book I was thinking they would never be saved! Annotating was tough, but it did help me comprehend the book so much better. Personally, at first I did not think to look for any major similarities to Macbeth, but now that I’m being asked I see many. For example, “Blood will have more blood.” The end of LOF was a pleasant surprise.
"Blood will have blood" means that once you have taken a life you may think to yourself I did it once I could do it one more time. It's true to Macbeth because he killed Duncan for power andhe killed Banquo to keep the power he gained.
ReplyDeleteLord of the Flies wasn't the best book I have ever read probably because of the slow beginning and that it took awhile to pick up pace. Annotating was hard because I havenotice the only thing that goes through my head is the story line and what the characters are saying. Though I do think I have understood LOF a little better. I do see connections to Macbeth when I think about it in depth.
I think what Macbeth is trying to say is that what goes around comes around. This could be that because Macbeth has taken life he will have to give his or have it taken. I really enjoyed reading LOF even though it took a little while getting into. I had some trouble annotating it though because when I read I just picture what is happening and don't usually think about it. When i think about it more Macbeth does have some connections with LOF such as the power lust and inner struggle.
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