Class: Did anyone catch what the time period is in this book? I was thoroughly confused. There was nothing... definitive.
Class-I have a question:Is Guy's wife an actress on one of the screens? Because she is talking about her script.
Do you think the men with the machines are important? What do you think their purpose is?
Class-Why is it that the government burns books? Do you think there is a good reason or is it a form of censorship caused by tyranny?
Melanie-The time period is not specified, but it is supposed to be futeristic.
Melanie-I think Ray BRdbury is setting the book in the future. He worte this book in the 1950s so probably sometime in the near future.
Melanie: My guess would be it takes place in the middle 2000's because it talks about the history of America a bit so it has to be set in the future.
Melanie-The time period was probably a long time in the future. Its shown because the girl talks about how firemen used to put fires out, billboards used to be 20 feet long instead of 20 feet long, etc. Also, the cars are now jet cars.
Justin-I think that the government in this society burns books to be politically correct and to make everyone "happy."
Class-I think that all books have been burned. It seems like this society is limiting thoughts in humans as much as possible, as well as knowledge. They have no idea that firefighters in time far before this actually put out fires instead of burning them. Houses are fireproof so there's no need for these types of firefighters. The term firefighter seems very ironic looking at this society because they aren't fighting fires, they're starting them
Melanie, I didn't catch the exact time period but from clues in the text such as they said that there was an air propelled train, so this would make me think that it is definitely at least like 30 years in the future, but i am not positive.
Justin-The government burns books to keep their people under control (as Meredith said) and also to not fill them with fanciful notions that may lead them to rebel, or lose order.
Melaniea2013:I think that the author does not specify the specific time period however it probably is meant to take place in the future. There are some hints throughout the book, so we can assume it isn't in the near future but takes place forty or so years from now.
Sydney and Kara - The future, I got that, I just wonder how far into the future. It's like a different world.I like what Nate is saying about how maybe an "event" caused the government to flip out over all the books and people.Class - Why do you think they didn't want to remember history? Why were people saying that firemen never used to stop fires? Hiding something?
Sydney-In this world they have TV walls and the latest thing in the shows is to leave a part out and she can speak up and be part of the show from her living room.
BREE-I would like to point out that in the book they are not called "firefighters" they are caled fireMEN.
Melanie: i would say that's it's sometime in the future becuase clarisse asks montag if fire fighters used to put fires out, and says she heard that sometime. But i;m not sure what time period exactly but sometime in the future
Melanie-The time period is very vague, while I believe it is meant to be set in the future, his low annual wages cause me to suspect it was not a very well thought out projection of the future. The time period is irrelavent however, because it only matters that it is set in the future and the statement he is trying to make doesn't have a lot to do with time period.
Class- Why do you think Clarisse is important? What role does she play?
Justin- I think that they may have said something about the books lying. They believed that the books didn't tell the whole truth, so I think that they believed that it was their duty to get rid of the books. Maybe they did this because they wanted everything to be based on the truth so that nobody would get any crazy ideas.
Sydney-Okay, but why/how do you think that this happened? Was there some sort of uprising that happened that cause this or...?
Ray Bradbury said that the library is our brain (you can find his conversation in the back of the book where there is his interview), do you agree with that quote? How is his opinion shown in Fahrenheit 451?
I assumed as I was reading that the story was taking place in the future. There were a few hints. Page 10 describes a glove hole in the door. The book describe it as touch sensitive. That seems futuristic. There was also mentions of other advanced technology like the moving fire pole, machinery performing medical procedrues and fireproofed houses.
Melanie-I think that Ray Bradbury intended for the story to be set in the future however, I believe that he purposely made it slightly indefinable. I feel that he was saying that censorship could go out of control anytime.
Justin:I think that the books are burned to control the people. It limits their exposure to other ideas that may make them rebellious or different from society. The less people are exposed to imagination and different cultures etc...means more control.
Class- I think this book takes place at least 2 or 3 generations in the future. i think this because it seems like nobody in the book has ever read a book, and how they are saying they used to know someone who read a book. I would guess it is in about 2100.
Bree-I definately agree with you about the contradiction of the word firefighter. If they start fires, then does the term firefighter imply that the firefighters fight an internal struggle with themselves, such as Montag's situation?
Thanks guys. So I didn't totally miss something there.Class - Has anyone read The Book Thief? I was making a major connection with book burning between these two books. The Book Thief is about the Holocaust, and how a child was stealing books that were supposed to be burned. It reminds me of the character in 451, Clarissa is it?
Melanie/Class-Maybe they weren't trying to hide the past. By simply not telling people that firemen were used for good is not hiding it. I think they were doing something that they thought for the good of the people. That's like the idea of Area 51 . Is it real? Is it not? Either way, if the government did not tell us, they're not hiding it.
I think that libraries and book are where we record our thoughts and acheivements. That is why books are so important. That is why burning them is so important.
Melanie-It seems to me that the government is hiding how society used to be because that would make people think and not necessarily be as happy as they used to be when they realize the world used to be different. If everything has always been one way, than there's no reason to question or challenge it. Clarisse McClellan questions and thinks, and look what has happened to her: she is a social outcast and is forced to go to therapy.
uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh this is so hard because i have read this book and don't want to let anything out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Rebekkah-That makes sense. It reminds me of the movie "the invention of lying" because no one really lies and when the first lie is told then a lot of problems begin to happpen... but do you think it was like in Harrison Bergeron where the government knows what its doing or do you think that important officials just think thats the way its supposed to be?
Kristen- I do agree to this quote. The interpretation that I got was that when the author leaves us hanging, we can think what we want to happen in that spot. This lets us use our imagination during the book which may help us connect to the story.
TAYLOR- like sydney said in the book they never refer to them as firefighters, they always call them firemen.
Justin-What brings uprising? Disagreement, people wanting something better. The government was probably trying to protect itself or something.
I thought it was interesting how much they changed by getting rid of all books and litterature. The government actually changed what is believed to be history. They erased things that happened in the past and changed them to make things "better". I think that possibly they changed history because somthing happened that created unrest in society so someone thought that by contrling what people believed and thought would create a safer society
Sydeny-I think that that is a very good point. They are no longer the fighters of fire, they are now men of fire. I think that is a big difference between the two.
Melanie- I love that book! I think it really is simiilair and that is part of the statement that Bradbury is trying to make. He is trying to show how the worst of societies have quite literally burned information, and in that time period we were metaphorically burning information to keep people uninformed. I made the same connection.
Melanie-I've read The Book Thief!!! I totally agree that there are some definite similarities. That was such a good book and Clarissa sort of reminds me of Liesl in the fact that she thinks about things not many others do.
Kara-I think Clarrise is important because she has realized that humans have become oblivious to the simple and natural beauty around them. She gives Montag the gift of thought and curiousity. She is challenging the system in the best way possible.
CLASS: What I want to know is what was happening with Montag's wife. I was confused at the part where she was reading a script for a play.
i know we're off of time period, but wikipedia says in a discussion in the book, it is dated after 1990.
Class-Clarrise plays a really important part in the book because she "challenges the system" Isn't that what this class is all about?
Justin- I think that the officials did know to some extent at one point what they were doing. Since there is no time period, we dont know how long this has been going on. If it has been going on for a long time, then I think that they the government officials think that that is the way it is supposed to be. So, they did know, maybe when it all started, what they were doing.
Grace-I think that the walls were some sort of social networking thing. It talks about how Guy's wife was talking to foreign people on the walls, and all that. I think the play was just sort of a game that the people with video walls played...
Class- I thought it was interesting how the government keeps so few written records, so they can literally burn away history when they want to and bend it to their wim. This is shown with their firemen's history which is falsified. I wondered what opinions you might have on this kind of control.
Zach- Whooo, research! Thanks.Margot - That's a great point. She is challenging the system. Personally I wonder about her uncle, who she always talks about. I wonder where he got all of his knowledge and WHY she is so different from everyone else because of him.
sydney-Why do you think we are reading this book?
Zach- That would make sense because I believe that this book was written in the 50's sometime.
I think that the wife was put in the story simply to show the norm of this time period. She could also be a foil to Clairisse and even Montag himself.
class: what's the significance of the all the things that are "living but not living?" Like the tube that was in mildred and and the metal hound. The author says that those things are living but not living at the same time.
Sydney-I kind of disagree. I think that based on the information we have on her thus far, we can tell that she will, at some point, challenge the system. However, I don't think we actually are supposed to know that she's a "System Challenger" yet. Perhaps, like they've been saying in the inner circle, she does read, but we're not sure of it yet. So I do think that she will challenge the system at one point, but she doesn't actually qualify yet.
Class-Do you have any predictions of what will happen in later parts of the book? What do you think will be major conflicts?
Class:Why do you think Mildred forgot about her suicide attempt? Wouldn't you remember something like that?
Eric-I think that this type of control could really be controversial. How much control do you need? In LOF the boys NEEDED control. They were losing all sanity in the absense of control. In Macbeth, there was too much control and you saw what happened. Some controls are good, we need some sort of control. We would all probably die without a sense of control. But when does the control get out of hand?
Class- Why is/was Farenheight 451 banned? Many of Ray Bradbury's books and stories have been banned/challenged in the past. Why do you think he continues to write banned/chalenged books?
Logan-Mildred is a machine.
Grantl: You're exactly right. When I read you're comment it reminded me of LOF. Fire, in that book, was used for survival. They needed it to be rescued and to cook their food. In F451, it was to "protect" the people by burning books and destroying what the government doesn't want to be found.
Sydney:Mildred is a person!
Sydney-I totally agree. Clarisse is huge in this story and I think that she will have a big part in making Guy think about these things. This class is all about challenging the system and that's what I love about the books we read. We can make huge connections to this class.
Garrett - When I read that, I just thought robot. Computer. Like those toys you have as a kid with a remote control when your parents don't get you a real pet. And that they were putting it into use. It was really vague, but also mysterious and I thought it was there for symbolism mostly. The people in the circle talking about it are all bringing up great ideas about it.
Logan-I wonder if maybe Mildred didn't forget, but she just didn't want Montag to know what she did. Maybe she wanted him to think she forgot, so at some point she can try again without having to worry about her husband being suspicous.Class-What exactly is the "Metal Hound"? I don't really understand the purpose of having it, unless it's just a pet for the firemen.
Sydney/Logan-Logan is right. Where would you get the idea that Mildred is a machine? haha
Eric- I agree with you when you said that they could burn away their history. I think that the government in this story may be trying to set an environment where everybody lives in the present tense and they follow the laws that were just set for them. It's almost like there was a point in time when they decided to "start over" and set new laws and make people believe that it's been the way for a long time. They might not want people living in the past, so that could be why they burned books and have such crazy laws.
Sydney-I agree that uprising is brought up by a desire for better, for help or simply disagreement. However, I also think that uprising is also brought up by a need for survival. In LOF Jack believes that he knows how to survive better than Ralph. So he challenges the system and creates a different way of life. In 451, the old lady believes that she can live better if she can read the books and magazines.
It resembles human's total control and productivity of this era.
ZAC-I think we are reading this book because we are trying to challenge the system. This is not learning as usual fits, because this book teches us things, and brings up topics you wouldn't discuss in a normal classroom. We are trying to think "out of the box" per-say.
Eric- I think that this kind of control is one of the most intence. The government is taking away all indevedual thought and oppinion. People cant learn about the world around them, they cant learn from history. When thoughts are controlled, ideas cant grow or expand and people can not create new ideas from what others have written in the past. I think that it relates to the idea that there is no such thing as an origional thought, everyone has similar ideas and they pick eachothers brains to expand upon that, and in a society like this that kind of growth is impossible.
it's an example
Sydney-why would make you think that Mildred is a machine
melanie: ya, great thanks!
Class-Piggy-backing off of their discusion about the hound, I thought it was interesting how even though the hound was a machine and therefore unable to have thoughts, Montag is still afraid and paranoid by the infinite possibilities that someone in control of the hound would have, and how easy it would be program it to hate Montag. I think this shows that there might be something to that video about the machines taking over.
Anna- I totally agree! I think there is a big difference between firefighters and firemen. No one really seems to be noticing that and I feel like it's an important difference.
To answer Logan's question, I think that Mildred possibly forgot her suicide attempt because in a traumatic situation, sometimes the brain tries to protect itself from the pain and remorse of the situation, simply by choosing to forget. In history, the topic of shell shock in soldiers after WW1 was debated, and it is similar to Mildred's situation in the sense that her brain attempted to protect her emotionally by shielding against the pain and sorrow. Does that make any sense?
Logan-How is Mildred a person? Guy describes her as "white marble" and with silvery skin. He doesn't love his wife, and she is oblivious to a lot that happens (she forgets a almost suicide!) She is not real, just as the dogs are not real. I think she is a machine.
Grace- I think that the mechanical dog is the way that society tracks and takes down people who are a "threat" to society. The dog can be set to any persons chemical balance and then it will track down and kill that person.
Grace-A metal hound is simply a tracking device. It can kill and hunt whomever's "chemical composition".
sydney, what i said earlier was sarcasm...You're right...reading book because it challenges the system.
They never once used the term "firefighters" though. Just firemen. So it makes sense in a way that we may not understand, but is completely normal in this society.
Grace:I think the Metal Hound is used to show how much control the government has. They have created all this technology to control the people. For example: Mildred and the machines. After her treatment, it was like her memory was wiped. Is the government controlling people's memories?
Sydney/Logan-I will have to go with Sydney on this one. I think that Mildred is, in fact, a machine. She doesn't appear to have any feelings, towards Montag or otherwise, and like Sydney said, she forgot a suicide attempt. I think that maybe it could go either way- it may just be one of those things that the author lets you decide.
Sydney:I say that she is not. He is describing her as a person who doesn't really care about life (she's complacent, what a great word choice). She only cares about her TV family thing, but she is most definately a person.
Eric- I agree with you. I think that this book may be showing that maybe too much control may not be a good thing. Everybody uses an exess amount of technology on a daily basis, so their worlds all revolve around technology. This book may be showing that when we are too dependant on technology, nothing good really comes out of it.
Taylor/Class - I think her forgetting her suicide attempt is like in HB when Harrison's parents forgets that they see he dies. They are almost brainwashed to forget bad events and it just... flutters away. Everyone in this society seems to live in the "now", not in the "then". If that makes sense.
Class-Thanks, I agree that it is a matter of trying to recreate a better society, but Sidney is right that it does come down to how much control is too much and I think that in this book the government does have too much control.
sydney- Why would someone marry a machine?
Bloggers-My question for you is this: Why does the author say "one two three four....days: the firehouse?" This can be found on page 31.
Class-Has anyone ever read City of Ember? This is like that. The reason the people don't think twice about it is because that is what they grew up around. In City of Ember there is nothing outside of Ember, that's it. So this is how the people have lived for so long, only a few people think to challenge the system.
I find it interesting that the firemen don't even know that their department was originally created to fight fire. Do you think that the government got rid of all the people that remembered the "old days" or maybe brainwashed everyone so they could have complete control? Is the uncle the only person left that has knowledge of what society used to be?
Grant-Wow! I just noticed that the firemen aren't referred to as firefighters. Maybe Bradbury realized that these two terms are so easily linked in a person's mind and used that in his text.
ClassDo you think Ray actually thought that the future was going to become like this, or did he just want to teach kids a lesson to read?
Melanie- I didn't realize that before, about the firefighters, but that is a really good point.
i agree with melanie. if i didn't know better, i would think a fireman was someone that walked around with a flamethrower, not a firefighter who puts them out
Class: Who do you think the government is represented by in this book? Do the firemen enforce the law? and where is group of people or a person who makes governing decisions?
Why do you think the "Hound" is after Guy? Do you think that the government somehow sees him as a threat? After all, firefighters are the key to society. Wouldn't they have spies watching them? Maybe Mildred is a robot and is a spy or something for the government.
Taylor - I think that is to show time passing. And how fast time passes for Montag.
Taylor/Melanie-Talking about how Mildred forgot her attempt at suicide, do you think the clamshell things are like the devices in Harrison Bergeron where they emit noises the make people forget?
Anna-That is very interesting, I never thought of that as a memory swipe. However, my Human Behavior class just did a unit on altered states of consciousness/ Drugs. Part of the issues with overdosing is memory loss. So maybe she simply forgot.
Anna-I think that the government may be trying to control people's memories. After all, they're already trying to control what they read, so why not control their memories, too? It seems that, like they're saying in the inner circle, the government wants to have complete and total control over everyone.
Sydney-There's definitely some really good connections between City of Ember and F451. That's a good example of a society where nobody thinks outside the city, again because they have never known otherwise.
Margot-That is a great assumption of what happened to the original firemen! I think that it is definately possible that they were brainwashed, or sadly, the government may have killed them in a fire.
Dora the explorer? Really?
Melanie/Grace- I gree, I think that Mildred is a machine in the metaphorical sense, because of her personality and how easily she can be "fixed". I think however, that she is a human, they have just elavated technology so much that humans have become the equivalent of machines.
Taylor- This may not be 100% accurate, but he may be off for those days and then he goes to the firehouse for work on the seventh day. Or, it could just be showing, how Melanie said, time passing when he is at the firehouse.
Class-If the houses are fireproof, how are the firemen able to burn the books with houses in them?
Dan-Why would you marry anything other than a machine if that is an option, to have a perfect spouse?Jessica-I think the firemen enforce the law because to the oblivious citizens, they are doing a good thing. They are SAVING society.
I watched Dora the Explorer yesterday therefore that is a good connection
Well could we agree that a pedestrian is someone that is challenging the system, in our normal terms? Because I think that Clarisses uncle would be someone who was challenging the system and thats why he got arrested?
Sydney-About the City of Ember, I have read that book. I never really thought to compare it to this, but now that I think about it, they are really similar. It's kind of like, everything's been the way it is for so long that everyone just believes that it's the norm. That way, the government can have better control over everyone and no one will think to change it.
Rebekkah and Melanie-Thank you for clearing up my confusion. This makes more sense now.
This is to Sydney's response to Dan:Mildred is not a perfect spouse like a machine would be... a machine would not try to kill itself.
Melanie- I think that it's just skipping a ton of boring information about his life that we needn't know...Many books tend to do this.
Bree: the houses are fireproof but the books are not. They burn the books inside the fireproof house, and the fire doesnt spread because the houses are fireproof so they never actually put out the fire they started
I agree with Sydney. these people are used to what is going on and have no idea that it ever was different. that's just how the world works. it reminds me of the giver
Bree-Because they're only burning the books, the house would not catch on fire. Eric-Have you ever heard of a person who can have their blood changed, and die for like, 6 hours then come back to life? I think not.
Sydney:I think that Mildred is a person because could a machine have enough feelings to be suicidal. I don't think that machines can have feelings.
Class-About what Josh said, is Mildred happy? She doesn't really have any emotions
Mildred is insane, she is mentally unstable. She appears happy, but there is something missing
Zach - I giggled at that Dora comment. Just saying.Class - "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." When history is not taught, things change. But it's a cycle. This society will go through this burning books thing (like during the Holocaust) then people like Clarisse will rise up (why not?) and then everything will go back to this again. When history is not taught, information, opinions, everything is lost. And regained again. That's just what I think, though.
Kylie- That sounds pretty accurate. I think that the pedestrians are the people who are challenging the system and that's why her uncle got arrested. He passed on the courage to her to challenge the system and this shows how she is not afraid to be different.
I was wondering that too Bree. Maybe the fireproofing is technological and controled by the government. That is kind of a scary thought. A government could control the fate of people in their own homes.
Jessica-Thanks! That definitely makes more sense now. So I'm guessing that everything inside the house burns including the people who choose to stay inside the house then?
Fair point, sydney
Sydeny- the City of Ember is a good connection. In the second book, when the people finally come to the surface, they find themselves exposed to all these different things. At first, theya re really excited but then they begin to regret ever coming from Ember. Maybe in F451, something really terrible happened and the government is trying to cover it up.
Eric-I think you may be right. Mildred could be one of those people that's just so out of everything, that she's basically the perfect citizen in the government's eyes. I think that maybe she could be "programmed" to believe that the government is right, and anyone who thinks otherwise is wrong. She could've been brainwashed at an early age, for all we know.
Kristen is kind of talking like a matchmaker. In this case, the government may assign people themselves or assign a company to do it
Them talking about happiness makes me think of a beatles song: Happiness is a warm gun. I think that this song is a good example of the beatles making fun of propaganda that gives you a false sense of happiness: a gun won't actually make you happy, but if they drive it into your brain, then they can make you think it will.
I don't really think that Mildred could be a robot or a machine, because if she was a machine, she wouldn't have pills or be forgetful. She isn't perfect, and most machines are perfect in this time, or near perfect
Sydney-I think Mildred is bipolar! There, i said it! She is always nagging Montag about something and then when she becomes happier for one minute, she lapses back into her unhappy, parlor loving, lonely self. I really believe that she needs Montag's companionship, not comfort from characters in the parlor. Which brings me to my next question...Bloggers-What is the parlor and how does it work?
Margot-Very true! That's pretty scary to think about. Do you think that there could potentially be something in the kerosene to burn the houses? The back of my book talks about the actual houses being burned as well. That's a confusing aspect of the book.
Class-What I do not get is why everyone is calling it a suicide attempt. I do not think Mildred was trying to kill herself, she was just being "out of whack". Can somebody please explain that to me?
eberger:but machines can disfunction or break down. Maybe that happened to her, and the machine men came to fix her. After all, it was really strange what they did.
Class-What is the significance of the jet planes? Why do they fly by so much?
They are more like acquaintances, not exactly in love or even friends
This machine talk is killing me. This society is different. The people are different. Why do we assume that she must be a machine because she is forgetful, I mean honestly? Taylor makes sense. I definitely thought she seemed bipolar... but a machine? Err.
[Dora isn't existant anymore...It's all about some Diego kid now(don't ask me how I know this)]Melanie- idk why i keep responding to your Q's...I'd say that the burning of books isn't like the Holocaust, rather more like the end of the southern Europe renaissance.
Whoever is talking about the machine men-Its really not that strange what the men did. The machine that took blood out and cleaned it was pretty much a chemotherapy machine, except instead of cancer cells it removed the sleeping pills. Mildred isn't a machine..
Sydney-If Mildred was a machine, why would she need to take pills? Couldn't she just have a sleep button?
Justin-Maybe there is a war going on, but the government doesn't want the opeople to know. Or they could be surveying what is going on down below to make sure there isn't anything out of the ordinary.
I think Mildred is in a trance because of her medicine. Maybe the government might be even giving her pills so that they have a better chance of controlling her.
sydney- why would a machine have orgins and be able to be killed by sleeping pills. A machine would not be able to be killed by medicine only destroyed.
Emily- I agree with you because I do not think that they are in love. When she rubbed the daisy on his skin and it said that he wasn't in love or happy, he tried to defend that and say that they were in love. The daisy may be a trick that kds play all the time just to have fun, but I think that it may be hinting that he is not that appy with his life.
Justin:I had the same question. I would guess some sort of war is happening/about to happen.
Lauren-Maybe its just a part of her system that she needs to function. If she had a sleep button, then wouldn't her husband notcie something like that? Pills are more settle and normal.
Melanie-I totally agree with you. I don't think that Mildred is a machine in any respect, I just simply think she has an addicting routine. She spends way too much time in the parlor, and in that sense, she is becoming a robot by repeating the action religiously everyday.
I agree, and if she was a machiene she probably would not have to take pills. Why would a machiene kill its self with sleeping pills? In the future that is represented in this book it is obviously possible to bring someone back to life by pumping new blood into them. New technology has obviously been created both medicaly and in machienes like the mechanical dog.
Dear Class,I am dead set on Mildred being a machine. As soon as I read about her there was no doubt in my mind that Mildred was a machine.AND I am curious who runs this whole thing? Who and where is the higher power?
this book reminds me of a book called like "the last book on earth" or something...same plot...
Zach, thank you for always responding to my questions. Hah.Really, I meant that books have been burned in great quantities before. It's no surprise (to me anyway) that this author saw it as a regular thing in the future, or at least a possibility. Oi, you guys, pumping blood through a machine and back into a body... dialysis anyone? That is technology from today.
With all the TV, there must be more jobs for actors and producers, directors, film editors, etc. Clarisse was talking about a TV class, like they watch TV to understand how to do these things
Zach: Dora does exist it was on yesterday... just saying.
Class-Why does Sydney think that Mildred is a machine? It seems to me that she's just a lady that is controlled by the gov...
Margot- thanks a good observantion. It could be like in HB, where if you were stronger, you had more handicaps.
Daniel-The machine also has blood. Non-valid argument. Machines could be part human, like in that movie coming out about people and machines.... I forget what it's called.
I think that sports are the knowledge because there really don't seem to be ways to challenge the system in sports, because it doesnt give any other ideas that would make the society to go againset the government.
Sydney- the higher power is the government, they control everything
Sydney- I have changed my mind about Mildred being a machine. Robots don't take sleeping pills, they don't act needy (when she asks Montag for another TV), they don't have fun, and they don't have blood. So I think that maybe you need to think about all the different feelings she has, which prove that she can't be a machine.
if mildred was a machine, she wouldn't need pills. they wouldn't work on a machine like they would on a human
Zach&Logan-Logan is right, Dora's still alive. I saw her on tv this morning
People and Machines movie- iDroid?
Sydney - Do you mean Surrogate, perhaps? Has anyone seen that? I haven't, but it seems trippy and relatable.
Class:If there are no books, how do people learn their jobs, especially complicated jobs like doctors?
Anna-Even so, why would a machine not receive some sort of warning that they are taking too many pills? Why would it matter if Guy noticed she was a machine?
Sydney/emily: But who is the government. Who makes the decisions and enforces the law. It seems that everyone is being controled by an idea rather than an actual governmental figure.
Justin- I dont think that Mildred is a machine. I think that she is a person and this book is portraying what a person would act like when the government has this much control. The people seem to lose some of their human characteristics and are not the same anymore.
Ok, let's get off the subject of woman vs. machine. I am curious about how and why children kill each other in this plot, as Clarisse mentioned on page 30. How do kids obtain guns? It should be outlawed!
MELANIE: what was that,"Oi" (no one responds to my questions about Ray...scroll up, you'll see them) I hate how conversatioins like what they're having end up becoming a discussion about how machines are going to take us over when, like you said, we already have a lot of the technology. It's working out fine. Not just the bood taking though, we have a lot of robots and stuff...Idk what I just said...
sydney-yes but why would they need pills or hearing if they are machines. They can just program that stuff into them
Garrett:Technology could have advanced. Besides, if she is a robot, Montag couldn't figure it out or know. Maybe its like the movie MIB, when the robots take someone's skin.
Class- This has made me think about the question, do you think that Machines will ever be able to think for themselves. Can comuters be opinionated?
sydney!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! people in this book are not machines!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Logan - WE use books to learn, but it hasn't always been this way. And I don't think it will always be this way. You make a good point, though, what books are they burning? Creative writing? Novels? Encyclopedias? Textbooks? It's not specified, but my guess is what with the rise of machines, they don't need the books. They learn different ways. Through other people, with technology... with those resources, who needs books?
Taylor-In the book Clarisse talks about the removal of responsibility. It sounds like the only laws that exist are relevant to books and keeping everyone pretty much the same with no religion, among other things.
Class-ok, if Mildred is not a machine, then she is one seriously confused woman. HOWEVER:"How rarely did other people's faces take of you and throw abck to you your own expression..."So here Montag is saying that people are expressionless. They really have no emotion in this time. Couldn't this imply that people are somewhat machine?
No a phoenix is a bird that died and rose from the ashes of its death.
Logan, well if they don't have books, do we know if there are definitely humans doing a job like a doctor, because from what I read, it seems to me that a job like a doctor could be something that they trained a machine to do....
That is an interesting point Melanie. If the government made everyone into a "surrogate" they could control them more easily without the human knowing it. Government could control looks, feelings and interaction. Maybe that is what is so special about Clarrise and her family. If they are the only non surrogates they would definitly stand out in society.
KaraN2013 said... Class-Isn't a phoenix a bird that lives in a fire and is reborn out of the ashes? Why do you think that firemen have a phoenix on their shoulder? Doesn't that signify that anything that is burned can be reborn? That means knowledge and books can be reborn.
not a lizard ha ha it's a bird from harry potter! ha ha
Jessica- The government is the idea. They made up all these ideas and taught the society them through TV, school, any way of quiet communication. The government is there, it's just extremely quiet and really good at hiding
Kara-I think a phoenix is a bird haha... I do agree that there is some form of hidden symbolism behind the logo for the firemen
Taylor W-I agree. How does Clarisse talk about kids her age killing eachother so casually? She says it like that's just the normal thing to do. Is it possibly because the government is focusing so much power on burning books and controlling people that they forget about the younger generation. They don't think them able to defy the government, or whoever's in charge, so they just sort of shunt them off to the side. That could be why the kids are killing each other in the first place- because they want attention.
Class- Sorry I meant bird. I was thinking of the salamander. Bird- not lizard i fixed it.
sydney-noooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!ever watched poker? They can have expressionless face
Lauren:The gov. might not wwant him to notice because Mildred might be a spy. Like I said, Montag has a very important role in society. they might want to make sure he was tempted to read a book or something.
Kara, have you watched Harry Potter movies? I think it's the third/fourth one where the red bird dies & comes back...Nice connection!
Grant-I strongly believe that computers can be opinionated. We have created them to be smarter than the average person. Take cars for example. New models are being designed with computers controlling them. If the computer wants to veer off the side of the road, it will do that. If the computer wants to stop the car in the middle of the highway, it will do that! Scary thought, but we as humans are giving machines minds of their own.
Daniel-haha. Poker is played only for a period of time. Not a life time. Trust me. I know how poker works.
Lets be nice to sydney she is allowed to think that she is a machiene!
Kara-I think you are asking about the Harry Potter definition. Yes, Dumbledor had a bird that would die and then be reborn. However, I think that Ray Bradbury is only showing a bird that is slightly vicious and fire-related.
Zach- No, I have not watched the Harry Potter Books or movies, I'm a scaredy cat. I just google it. :D
Kylie:That would make sense. However, the people that flush out Mildred are people so I'm guessing doctors are people also.
Au revoir everyone!
Taylor- Well, the other day this guy crashed through my neighbors fence. He was drunk. He went here. My neighbor knew him, and told us what happened. My dad wanted to know how kids our age get a hold of alcohol, and he explained how everyone has a fake I.D. Maybe it's like this?
Jessica-Thank you, but I think I can take it. I'm good.
sydney-if you werent happy you would not have a smile and be expressionless