I am excited
I agree Jay, i have been thinking about this for the past ten minutes.
I know and this prep speech that Smith is giving is just really pumping me up!
Who will ask the first question?
sooooo. what connections do you all see???
very exciting isn't it
Okay, sooooo how do you guys think these stories mainly compared?
ClassWhy do they want to treat eveyone equally? Was there some sort of catastrophe?
They are both in the future.
there both changed to make everyone equal. thats one connection
Yep. I think that they wanted to make everyone the same to make the world "perfect."
Janie-They are mainly compared through the people striving for equality. It is frowned upon to be unique.
Katie-They want equality so that they can control what is happening. So that chaos does not break out. What they don't realize is that if one thing goes wrong with perfection, the largest amount of chaos will break out.
class- one question at a time please
ya silvana-also, both stories i found very sad because everyone was the same
Ya and I think there is some what of a comunistic feel to both stories.
i see that the people in both the stories are being censored by the law. in Harrison the people are censored by not being able to think or be strong. in the pedestrian the people have to follow set guidlines.
They want to treat people equally because thats what we want now but in HB they took it to an extreme.
Katie- I think that maybe someone just decided in a way that we were debating about previously , that everyone should be treated equally.Maybe there was a catastrophe though, that's a good idea.
Miranda-What do you define as chaos?
well perfect can mean dull. i mean with all the things they used to make them ugly or slow it made perfection ugly
JANIE- i think that these stories compare by people trying to create a utopia but neither of the societies work or they have they have someone that isn't going to like it. If anyone has ever read the Giver you would know.
Janie- The fact that things have become so prgressve that they've begun to drag itself down. In The Pedestrian, things becomes so fast paced that there's no time to stop and smell the roses. In Harrison Bergeron that everyone is so equal that "average intelligence" is complete idiocy.
What do you think could have cause such extreme censorship, like what we saw in the stories?
JD-OMG GOOD BOOK!!!!!!!! And yes, I would agree that these two stories compare to The Giver
Jay- Yeah, I thought it was sort of like a variation of communism.
katie-i think that the government tried to make people equal so that everyone could feel like they were important or something like that, or to avoid something bad from happening or something like that.
Miranda-Why do they want everything to be perfect though? Emily-But why would they just decide that was better?
Janie-Chaos is something that will go terribly wrong in their society. Like a something that would cause a nuclear war.
I agree with JD, I also connected the stories to City of Ember
yes, jay- thats so true.Its like people TODAY are so caught up in being better than each other, but we don't realize how important individuality
Silvana- The government in HB takes it to the extreme. Even today we want equality but they misinterpret what we think equality means.
Chris- stupid government officials
silvana- i agree. The ironic thing is that when the dance had very ugly mask on everyone already knew that she was very beautiful
Miranda-I don't see any of those kind of conflicts in these stories, in these, chaos seemed defined as uniqueness (did i just make up that word? haha)
Janie-i agree the giver was a good book and it did alot in common with these two stories
Katie-Like I said, they want everything to be easily controllable. Perfection would be easy to control.
Chris-I was wondering teh same thing but i believe that everyone wanted what everyone else had. Like say you were smart and someone else wanted to be a smart as you. If you are the same smartness there is no jealousy.
Class- also, I don't know if you guys have read any of 451 but I think that these two stories relate to 451 inn the way that so much is censored and controlled
silvana i was commenting on ur earlier comment
Kate- but look what happens when we get rid of individuality when we got rid of it.
Katie- maybe because things were getting out of hand, and they decided, instead of educating people, that handicapping them and taking away their right to think would be easier.
CLASS- Are these societies both communism?
Jay-I think we'll talk about 451 later... :)
Janie- If this is what the future is going to be like I want to stay in tis time era. It is rediculous to think that we all should be equal, because we aren't some of us are smarter or better looking. We are all unique, we have our own personality and taking that away would make life bland, dull, and aweful.
Ruthie-Ok that makes sense but do they really know the outcome because then dont they have to be equal as well
Connor-What i mean is do you think something caused the government to react like they did?
Janie-I'm not sure about "uniqueness" someone should look it up. But I just mean the control of the society.
Class- Has anyone read the Uglies trilogy? If so, I have a connection.
britni-sorry i got lost. but yea. the worse her mask the more beautiful they knew she was
Class- do you guys think that things are getting closer and closer to what happened in these stries? Were Bradbury and Vonnegut right?
miranda- chaos can really mean anything,I think that it kind of depends on what you beleive I guess. I define chaos as everything going wrong and something goes wrong for everyone, not just yourself.
although taking away someones right to think is much easier it was just harsh and the government had no right to do it
emilym-i have not but i am interested to hear your connection. shoot
Class-New Question. What kind of people istalled these laws in H.B.? Why?
Emily-I read Uglies!! I can see how you could connect the Pretties to these stories
britni- i totally agree
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Chris- well governments often have many corrupt officials or maybe there was a war.
Emily-I have read the Uglies Series. And that is exactly what I was referring to. The society in those books wanted everything to be perfect, so that no one would think and they make people do whatever they wanted. They wanted a controllable society.
Britni- its more like a harsh monarchy rather than gov.
Emily- I have not read the uglies but share the connection any way.
Silvana-I completely agree with you. If they have all these handicaps the people realize that they are better then others, which defeats the purpose of equality.
Janie- Well Smith wants us to make connections and a text to text relationship is a very good connection
allie- i'm not exactly sure that our world is really going to become like in these stories.I think that one possible reason for these stories could be to prevent that from happening and show what society could possibly become.
ruthie-Yes I completely agree. That is what I meant to explain. I'm sorry if I wasn't clear.
Katie- You think what I said was dumb? I am confused.
Nick- I think congress enacted the laws because it talked abouts amendments to the constitution in the story.
Emily/Janie I think that that Pretties is a perfect example but the main difference is the doctors are bringing the statas of people up instead of down
Emily-About Uglies are you talking about how they made everyone 'pretty' on their 16th birthday. I can see how that can be related.
Silvana-That was what i was trying to get to...that we can be really caught up in competing with others and being better, but it is a lot more than that. People are individual and we must accept that some people are better than others at certain things, but that doesn't mean the government should intervene.
Class- What do you think the governments in both The Pedistrian and Harrison Bergeron did that could have done better and what went wrong?
Class- Ok, so why do you guys think that the ballerina in Harrison Bergeron decided to join him? She could have easily said no.
Do you think it was worth it for Harrison and the ballerina to be free, even for a few minutes?
Nick-It really depends on how you see what the Doctors are doing to see if what they are doing is good or bad. It really depends on your opinion. Why do you think that they were raising the status for the pretties?
Sivana-I think that you had a really good point about how the handicapps can make people realize that they are infact superior because they can realize that the more handicaps they have, then the more priviledged they naturally are.
Class-Do you think that they made those laws againstt being unique because they thought that people weren't smart enough to choose who they want to be themselves?
Ryan-I think that the government acted to rashly. I do not think that they really thought about how the desision would hinder the society.
Class... NEW QUESTION... What do you think about the ending of the pedestrian?
Class-Uglies is about a society that, when citizens turn 16, they turn "pretty". They have an operation, and literally turn beautiful. However, when they do the operation, they change the Pretties' brains so they are mindless. They have fun, and they know what they are doing, but they have no desire to be anyone different from anyone else. The society is kept under control, because no one over 16 has a brain.
KateYeah thats what I meant. Some times competion can push us to be better and improve us.
Melissa-I think it was worth it. They had the chance to show their beauty and talent which is what everyone would want. They were kept in the dark so long its a breath of fresh air.
Ryan- I think that the government in both of those stories both kind of had the same mind set.The Pedestraian was a little more confusing to me but I think that they both are tring to make people what they are not to make everyone as a whole happy, though this is morre in Harrison Bergeron.
Janie-I think that could be a very probably answer to why they made those laws. If you think about who the people were that created those laws were, you could make another connection.
Miranda I think that the doctors are trying to do raise everyones status but they are doing it in a different way.
Chris F. - If people have enough inequlities like the things if their ears, how can they carry on a thought for more then 20 seconds if they have those things in their ears. I do not agree that the handicaps will make people make people realize that they are different.
Janie-I think that they made the laws to try to prevent chaos but they ended up creating way more. People could not think yet they still can dream.
I think that the ending was ok but when the cop told him that he needed a wife to give him an alabi that was strange.
Janie- I think that the government made people the way they did because they were afraid of revolt. They liked control and order, and they were afraid to let anyone be different, because they might ruin their "perfect" society.
Nick-Do you mean they are raising people's status in a good or bad way?
Class keep in mind what books we are supposed to be comparing.
Melissa- Yes I do think that it was worth the few minutes of freedom because if he did't think it was worth it he wouldn't have gone to that specific place where everyone could see. Also the ballerina most likely thought the same thing because otherise she wouldn't have stood up.
Connor- I was a little confused with the ending of the Pedestrian, where did they take him. But I think that this ending is kind of a symboloism for what our society could turn into.
MichelleAnd then there is the whole slef conflict with it. If you see how much more hanicaps you have then others, think of all the things you could be doing if you didnt have them, all the things that you could make better and do better in.
Ruthie-I think the ballerina joined him because she was not afraid to rebel against the government and she did not enjoy the weight on her shoulder (literally!) Why can't people just be themselves?!
Class-How do you think fear sustains a totalitarian government?
Katie and Emily-I agree with you both. Katie, I guess this shows that even how hard they try, they can't take people away from who they are?Emily, were the people really afraid to revolt? Or incapable?
Ruthie-They were taking him to the Psychiatric Center for Research on Regressive Tendencies.
Ruthy I agree it was also very thought provoking I mean why did they carry him off?
Ruthie- The happiness isn't in Harrison because his dad had the better thinking and knows that something is wrong in the government deep down, I think. Harrison's mother on the other hand had no idea because of her comprehension.
Class-Do you think the government thought about how the weights and masks could be bad for the poeple? Didnt they also have to do the same too?
Katie- I get what you mean,thats kind of what I got out of that part.I don't realize why it is so bad for someone to be themself.I think that is what makes everyone different which is good.
Katie-I don't think that the government cared. They were just trying to keep everything the same and not alter their "perfect" society
Melissa and Ryan-I totally think it was worth it for the ballerina and Harrison to break free. Their death showed the corruption of the government and I hope that it changed things.
Silvana-I think that is a good point. I think that it is sad how in some ways people are being mocked for what they know they can achieve but not being given the oppurtunity to get there.
Katie-That may be a metaphor for what government really is. Most politicians think that they are above the law. That they can tell anyone what to do and then do whatever THEY want.
Janie- They had lesions put in their brains so that they didn't want to. In the second book (sorry to sort of spoil it), some of the Pretties do revolt, because they remembered what the Operation did to them, so they overcame it.But no, they aren't incapable, they just don't see any reason to. The City gives them all the clothes, all the drinks, all the partying they want, all day, every day.
Katie: good point... and why wasn't the HC handicapped to?
Class- These stories remind me of communism, the leaders try to make everything equal. How can everything be equal if the people in charge make the laws and can change them? The communists are basically stealing from those who have more this is to level out everything to make everything equal, if America was communist would you work?
Katie-I think that theri government did not realize the bad I think that they got power and couldn't deal with it in the right way.
MichelleYeah in these to short stories it really shows how much we have and can give. Imagine a life where you have no choice or antyhing in how you want to live your life. Its a horrifying thought.
CLASS: QUESTION-In the Pedestrian, was that man the only man alive? Why do you think all the lights were off?
Ruthie-I think the government just doesnt think of the effects. How do you think they think being unique is bad?
Katie- I don't think that the government thought about the downside of the handicaps. I also think that the government officials use the handicaps so not everyone is "equal".
KatieI don't think that they were thinking about the welfare of the public.They were just thinking of equality.
Katie- I think that the government thought of themselves as the only people who could keep the society under control, so no, I don't think they would handicap themselves.
Katie- The government is the highest power of everything. If someone is in the government they can get away or do more things than a regular person. Since the government is the highest they don't have to wear the same handicaps or if any at all. It's like us paying taxes but the president doesn't it's like that
Kate-I dont think he was the only man alive. I think that he was just the only man who could still think for himself. He is the only one who is keeping with his old routine and not changing for others.
Michelle Yay! Way to bring in our good ideas!
Katie-The police car clearly stated that everyone else was in their homes watching television. The lights were off because most people like to see the television clearly by turning the lights off.
Ryan-The handicaps were there to make sure that every one was equal. This took away from the excitement and joy of life.
Melissa- Do you think the few minutes of freedom were worth for Harrison and the ballerina?
Katie IF the government thought about what the wieghts and masks did to their people then hopfully theye wouldn't have done it. Then again you have to look at what the government is striving to do. If they actually wanted to help their people or if they just wanted to opress them. So now I have a question for you. Do you think that this government wanted to help or hurt their people?
NEW QUESTION:class- what do you think that life would be like if we lived in these "eras"?
Class How did everything work with people in that mental state? How did they work and produce things?
ClassIn H.B. is it really equality? All people have different weight and handicaps so is it really fair?
Josh-It is equality because they are all limited in some way, and they can't be who they really are
Josh-No I do not think that is fair. I guess we have been looking at equality more than the details. Good eye.
KATE- If he was the only one alive why would e arrest himself. It is like I Am Legend. He could have been arresting himself to get in touch with old life but I don't think that he would do that.
RuthieIf we lived in this "erea" then we really wouldn't know the difference between what we have now and what we would have in the "erea"
Silvana-Yes, a life like that, in my opinion, would eventually fall and get to a point where it would not be able to prosper any longer.
KateA- I do not believe that The Pedsestrian was the only man alive. The government shut the people in their houses to hide them from the world, the unknown. The world brings danger, and the government fears that. They would rather let people live in the dark of censored darkness than expose those people to the light. I see a parallell to parents not wanting to expose their children to certain books and the web. Information brings enlightenment, but it can also cause conflict. The Pedestrian is the only man who recognizes the light and will not submit to the dark.
MirandaIf you think about it people could have 40 more pounds then someone else or more handicaps.
MichelleIf life like that is so bad...Then what would be the point of living it?
Class- I'm listening into the converstation in the circle, and Kyler brought up an interesting point. Is crime essential for the world to run properly?
JanieI don't think it is really equality because one person could be carrying 40 pounds more then someone else or have more handicaps.
Josh-Yes, I completely get that.
BryanNo because one could just sit around and get paid to do nothing. This would be very bad and we would never advance our country.
Melissa-I disagree. I dont think that the people were shut in there houses. I think that they are so acustom to being in there houses that they just choose to follow their same routine.
Josh-It doesn't matter because no matter how many pounds or Handicaps, everyone will be equal eventually. Their strengths and minds will all be at the same level
Class. What I wonder is are the authority figures in the short stories really looking out for the peoples benefits? People naturally want to be noticed, so are they looking to simply raise themselves?
Janie-I think thatcrime is needed for a society to function properly. If there was no crime so many jobs would be lost (police officers, fire fighters, etc.) And there are many other points I cannot think of at the moment
janieCrime may not be essentail but in some way we need it. How can we know the good without the bad to compare it to?
Janie- Yes it is. If we didn't have anything to go wrong or someone who doesn't agree we wouldn't have a human society, we would just have something like H.B.. Nothing can function without trouble.
Miranda-One that I can think of is that without crime, how would we know what good is?
Janie- I don't think that crime is essential. It will always be a part of society but I think that law enforcement is essential.
MelissaI agree with your statement about the Pedestrian. No he was not the only person alive, but he was the only one who was not afraid to be himself. He always went for a walk even though no one else would. He wasnt afraid and the police man was scared that h the pedestrian was going to try to go back to old times
Silvana-I would like to applaud you on what you commented about Janie's question. That is exactly correct. How do we know how to behave, when all we have is one thing to be?
CLASS- This is going along with Janie's question, Why do we even have laws if they are just going to be broken?
Janie- I think that crime is esential in the sense, that why would we need rules if everyone was bound to follow?
Janie-Yes, that is what Silvana said. I also commented on what she said.
JD-We have laws, because when they are broken, we can take the bad people who break those laws out of our society.
MirandaThanks. We can have neither good nor bad when we dont have them both.
Miranda and Silvana-That's exactly why these stories don't have "Perfect soiceties." Perfection is something that isn't, and shouldn't be wanted when talking about government becasue without flaw, we wouldn't know how to improve
Janie- There are plenty of other things bad in the world to show us what good is.
Silvana-Another good point.
JDLaws are meant to protect the society and yes they are broken. Although many people dont care what the laws are, others do care and follow the laws.
JD-I think we have laws because it will keep most people in order versus if we had no laws all people would do what ever they want and there would be utter chaos. Eventhough they will be broken, they will keep most people in order.
Janiewell is it really perfect? like jay say it is flawless but not perfect
JD- We need rules so the people with a conscience can get along. If you think back to Lord of the Flies, whose tactics would work in the longrun, Jack or Ralph's?
Janie- Yes, I know that. But some people do not realize that i.e. government. That is why thy are trying to create perfect society.
Connor-How do we know what good is without knowing what bad is?
Britini- If we didn't have laws we wouldn't have anything to tell us what is right from wrong.
Janie- I think that the type of crime in the pedestrian had changed. Instead of the crimes that we think of happening today, there was an entirely different form. Since the people were in their houses all the time, I think that the most prevalent form of crime would be through the internet. In the society of this future world, reality has in a way been abandoned for what can be created online.
JD- We have laws so that society can function properly. The laws also differentiates between good and bad in some ways and if there were no laws then criminals and murders could run around freely with out even an attempt at prosecution.
JDTrue but if we didnt have any laws then people would think that they could do anything the wanted and chaos would occur.
Danny-I agree, the types of crime were different in the stories than crime is now. But it's still flaws in society, so do we need flaws?
Fons- If we have utter chaos that would be anarchy, anarchy can only last for so long before someone is going to come up and stop everything and try to get control.
JD- I think that it all depends on the law in question on whether or not it is needed. If it is going to be broken, sometimes it should be broken. Nazi Germany, for example. Was it right to leave laws saying that Jews aren't people unbroken?
Janie: I think a side of human nature will always be evil and doing the opposite is good there will always be some evil in the world because its a part of us.
JDYes someone would want to come up and take over the anarchy but then that person would eventually get power and create more rules
JD-Wouldn't we get chaos FROM anarchy?
Class-I have a question. I think that the handicapps somewhat defeat the purpose of equality. When the people in HB see the handicaps they realize that those people are better. What do you think?JD-Yes, but with the utter chaos, the only way to stop chaos is law.