What dramatic change do you think occured in Montag's and Beatty's relationship that made Montag want to kill Captain Beatty?
GrantI think that Beatty wanted Montag to kill him. Why would he continue to taunt Montag while he has a flame thrower in his hand and has just gone through a major emotional crises.
Grant-I think the dramatic change came when all Beatty was doing was beating Montag down. He was pointing all Montag's faults out and making him look like a fool the he became angry and full of hate towards Beatty.
Grant -Beatty was about to burn his house down... personally, I'm not surprised Montag killed him. Beatty was cold. Intelligent, absolutely, but inhumane. Montag made a quick decision, and if he hadn't killed him, then don't you think Beatty would have killed Montag? That's the impression I got.
Anna-I think that is forshadowing because maybe it is predicting the war
Grant- I going to burn Montag's house. I think that he just got fed up with all the books being burned and got so mad that he wanted to kill Beatty.
Grant: Beatty wanted to be killed. He had read books and books had betrayed him. They had given him knowledge and taken away his ignorant bliss. He was unhappy and thrashed out at the world through his books. That is my theory.
MELANIE-I don't think that Beatty would have killed Montag. Maybe put him to shame but not kill him. Beatty was going to load shame onto him and make him feel awful and slam him in jail, but I don't think he would have killed him.
Grant-I think Beatty realizes that Montag is a true threat. I think fear in both Montag and Beatty is making them both do rash things. I also think that Montag had given Beatty his trust and Beatty betrayed that trust.
Grant-I don't think that there was a relationship change at all. I think that in this case it was a matter of life and death and he realized that in order to live he had to eliminate Beatty.
Grant i think that he just got ticked off. Montag just had everything just bottled up inside and he just wanted to let it out. This was the best way that he knew how
Grant-I think that Beatty was setting himself up to be killed by Montag. From the first conversation they had over books, Beatty had been trying to agitate Montag. I personally believe that Beatty wanted to die because he couldn't understand the books he had collected. Agree, Disagree?
Class- Do you think Beatty wanted to die because he couldn't read books? It seemed like he was an avid reader. So is that why he wanted to die?
Grant-Beatty was about to find faber, burn his house down, and just destroy everything he had. wouldn't you react to protect the things and people you like?
Melanie:I think that there was kind of a competition between Montag and Beatty. If Montag had not killed Beatty, it is fairly possible that Beatty would have killed Montag. I kind of see it like Jack and Ralph in LOF. They were in constant struggle for power, and this power struggle could lead to death on either side.
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To what Logan is saying -I'd say that Beatty was indifferent towards death. He didn't seem the desperate kill-me-now type, but he didn't hold very much value to his life, clearly. Beatty, throughout the whole book, seems like a representative medium rather than a "character", if that makes sense. He was there to talk story and spread knowledge, but it was as if he didn't truly feel for anything. Except, possibly, his job - but that was for firemen everywhere, not just himself.
Grant-I think that Montag and Beatty's relationship has always been volatile. Especially since Beatty came to Montag's house and told him the history of burning books. Montag could have very likely just been caught up in the moment, or as Shannon has said, he felt that he had to kill Beatty in order to live.
Grant:Maybe it's because he burned his house and was going to take him to jail.
KARA/ CLASS:Kristen made a rather good point: that Beatty had the useless knowledge that made him lose ignorant bliss, so he had hate and he took it out on other people. He put the other people down for having books because he had them and they had hurt them. Like betrayal.
Grant-I think that the draumatic change in their relationship was that Montag wanted to show Beatty what the point was in burning things that weren't right. So it seemed to me that the only reason that Montag actually did kill him was to make a point, and Beatty could be considered a threat to Montag. What is your opinion Grant?
Class-We have been discussing good vs. evil throughout the books that we have been looking at this year, so in this story which is which? Montag is obviously our favorite but isn't he the one breaking the rules?
Meridith lI dont believe that there was a power struggle between Montag and Beatty. Montag was kind of a door matt. He never wanted to be more than he was. He had no ambition.
Kara-I also think that beatty wanted to die, not because he couuldn't read, but because he knew what the world was coming to and didn't want to live in it.
Meredith and Sydney:But remember the part where he was saying that the Mechanical Hound was after him? Maybe he wouldn't have killed Montag directly, but he made it seem like his death was coming either way.
Montag was betrayed by Beatty. In this world, they are TOLD right from wrong, not TAUGHT. There is a difference, and people seem to act on impulse.
ClassHow do you think that Beatty knows all those quotes by so many authors?
Kara- I think that he knew that he wasn't understanding the books and maybe Montag had an influence on him. It seemed like he did want to die because he was an avid reader. When he realized that he had read so many books, I think he wanted to die, also because he wasn't allowed to read them anymore.
Class-why do you think that Montag just lost it?did he have everything bottled up inside or was just like a cornered wolf?
I'm sorry. Not in this world, this time.
Sydney:But he must've read books at one time in his life in order to be able to spit out quotes at such a rapid pace as he was. I think that he read books and maybe wanted to die because he couldn't do it openly.
Class-On page 124, Montag says "where am I running?" Do you think that he's going to be caught or will he escape? Also, if he does escape, where will he go?
What do we think is going on with Clarrisse? Because she hasn't been mentioned for a while and I am really starting to become curious what is happening to her....I am not quite convinced that she is dead yet.
Shannon:We have also talked a lot about what it means to challenge the system and Montag is challenging the system.
SHANNON:Isn't it the people who break the rules the ones who make history? It's like, when your mom tells you not to touch the stove you do it because it's against the law. We love Montag because we have books and we know what he is missing.
Andy- I think it's because he has read so many books in his time that he knows so many quotes from the authors.
Grant-I think that Beatty wanted to die. If you look at the conversation they had, Beatty had books and read books. He could have stopped at any time.
Andy-He picked up books before they started burning. He read. He would also read the first line of something when he could before burning it.
I agree with emily on the fact that people aren't taught right form wrong but told right from wrong. That is why they are probably why people are so clueless.
Andy-I think Beatty definitely has been reading, that is for sure. What I am wondering is does he still read, or was that a thing of the past?
Daniel II think it was a combination of the two. He had done nothing out of the ordinary his whole life but certain triggers set him off. He was in a situation where he was cornered and people who are cornered and have just gone through an emotional crisis can make very irrational decisions.
Shannon:Going off the whole good vs. evil thing it really depends on perspective. You were using the example of Montag and how he breaks the law. Think of it this way. You have a friend who wants to commit suicide, and they tell you. Is it wrong to tell someone? In the friend's perspective, yes it is wrong. If you ask the friend's parents, they would want to know. I think it is the same with good vs. evil in 451. Many of these characters are static, they change. That is my theory on the whole good vs. evil thing.
classBut how could he get so many quotes form just reading just the first line of a book?
Daniel:I think Montag lost it because it was like a flame burning brighter and brighter. I just think that Beatty was at the wrong place at the wrong time. However, Beatty wasn't against Montag's plan of killing.
ZAC-I don't know exactly where he is going to end up , but with this amount of pages left in the book, I would think that he is not going to get caught just because it wouldn't make sense to me for him to die at this point in the book.
Emily -That's a good point, I got that impression too. Told, not taught. So it was interesting once Montag started teaching himself, sort of.Andy -I don't know how, but it was sure interesting. He even made a reference to Greek mythology, which is more word of mouth than in books... nevertheless, he knows his stuff. How old is he, do you think? He's had the time. Kristen is making a good point right now. He may not have always been a fire captain. Before, he may have been like Montag, seeking anything and everything.
Kylie-She may just be in hiding. I don't think she's dead either. It seems like she's too smart to be killed, if that makes sense. She must have heard something about the government catching on to her intellect, and wanting to know "Why?" It seems like she would have hid.
Daniel-I think that Montag really just was at a point where he felt betrayed and didn't know what to do. He is having to burn down his house and clearly his captain doesn't feel that bad about it. How would you feel?? I'm sure that he did feel very cornered as well with the treatment he was getting.
Andy Are you talking about Beatty or Mmontag
ANDY:If you read enough first lines of books, it kind of sticks. They burn books every night, so he may get quite a bit of reading in!
Andy- There are so many books and so many authors that I think that he has just read so many books before he burns them. There is also a probability that he may have read the same book more than once if different people have the same copy.
Kylie-I believe that Clarisse is dead. On pages 127-128 when the car is speeding towards Montag symbolizes what happened to Clarisse. It shows how careless the people in the society are, and if Montag was also hit, they would have just continued driving without giving a second thought.
CLASS:In the circle we're talking about beatty being all bad and evil. But really was he? Is he bad or is that just human nature? Where is the defining line?
Sydney-So potentially Montag will make history, but technically isn't he the evil in this book. He is on the most wanted list and no one likes him, except for Faber. He is the evil, without him most of society runs smoothly so in all of the rest of the town he is the enemy, why are all of our heroes our enemies?
I think that Beatty is knows so much stuff because he reads books so that when someone like Montag tries to justify reading, he can condraict any poing that he tries to make and he proves this when he tells Montag of his dream.
Class/Emily-Do you think that Montag is ever going to try and find out what happened to Clarrisse? I would be dissapointed if we end this book and don't find out what happened.....but yes, I agree with you Emily, Clarrisse doesn't seem stupid enough to get caught, but would they announce her dead just because she hasn't been seen recently?
ZaccI don't think that the car speeding is symbolism as much as a very possible scenario that could have happened to Clarisse.
I think that Montag is hurt from the books. The knowledge has given him realization of how bad and cruel the world is. Is it better to know that horrible stuff exists or to live unaware and happily?
CLASS/ SHANNON:You say Montag is horrible, and evil. But why is he defined as evil? Is someone evil for simply wanting MORE?
Class-At this point in the book it seems that it is really easy to make a lot of text to text, text to self, and text to world connections. What connections are you all seeing? I'm really curious to see what people are relating this text to.
Kylie-I think that Clarisse is dead. If you think about the society that they live in, the government wants total control. I think that Ray Bradbury isn't mentioning her to show the readers that having books is a serious thing. He wants to show us that a society without people being able to think for themselves is bad for the people who are being controlled but perfect for the controlers. However, there is always going to be one person who comes along and challenges the system.
Bree: I think that Montag felt almost betrayed by Beaty. It seems that Montag did have some kind of connection to the captain besides fear. I think before Montag met Clarrise he almost looked up to Beaty. I mean he was the "perfect" Fireman. Montag seemed like he also felt very guilty, like his house wasn't just burnt out of the blue. There was no one to blame, but himself. I would feel the same as Montag, shocked mostly. I think shock also overwhelmed him and he couldn't even function right. He was just like a machine, trying to get through what he had to do without any emotion to it.
Sydney-Keep in mind that while it is in a different time, they're still human. Everyone has a good and a bad side, and it's almost impossible to find the line between the two. Everyone can give you an example of a time when they were the best they've ever been, and it will be good. They can also give you the time when they were their worst, and it will shock you.
Kylie -I think Clarisse is gone. The fact that she hasn't been mentioned in the story at all since her "death" just goes to show how unimportant she is, how useless she is to this society. I think it's too hopeful to think she's still out there, or coming back. We, as the readers, still wonder about her because of her role, but they forget about her because of her role. If that makes sense.
Sydney- I dont think that he is bad becaus he is just going along with what society thinks is right. If he is following society, then he is really not breaking any laws. I do, however, think that he could have changed because he could have tried to make a difference since he liked to read. He may be following what society thinks is right, but he is not following what he thinks is right.
Kylie:I'm not sure whether Clarisse is alive or dead, but I'm not sure it matters. I think that the purpose of Clarisse is to set Montag in motion, and to give him ideas. If you look at the book as a whole, Montag is the main part, but people come up for a little bit and then fall away. I think that Clarisse is just the first of these people who come into Montag's life. I'm not sure if it is necessary to know her status now, but it would be cool to know.
Andy-I agree with you and I bet Beatty read a ton of books before the time of books being burned or before he burned them.
ZAC-Okay so I see what you are sauing but as smart as Clarrisse is, to me it seems like that is just an easy way to end the talk about Clarrisse, but to me it doesn't seem to likely, what would have to point have been then if she had died?
Class-In the inner circle, they are discussing suicide. In the society, do you think that suicide comes to people like Montag who realize what horrible condition the community is in. Do the people who commit suicide believe that death is better than living in that society?
BREE:This is a lot like LOF and Macbeth. Betrayal by people you thought were your friends. I also connect a lot to the bible because the world isn't happy and it's in a state of "chaos" if you will. There is little religion here, and nobody seems to think nor do they care for themselves. It's a fake society covered with fake people and fake happiness.
Class-I am still uncertain why the book is focusing so much on the war. Do you think that it is going to forshadow the end of the book?
Ray Bradbury said that the war was an added threat and that the burning of books and lack of knowledge in this society is the real threat to civilization.
I agree with Kylie. Clarisse may have had a major part and part of that part is to die and set Montag in motion and start the uprisisng.
Kylie-We had better find out what happened to her! I don't think Ray Bradbury would have her just disappear, and not explain it. Nobody would. If it ends without explaining it, I would think of this book as incomplete.
Sydney-I suppose he is not evil, but he is definitely not normal. He is a criminal and although as the readers we don't see him this way how does society look upon him? Well they don't hen they have a problem they fix it by eliminating the person, not trying to change them.
Sydney:I think that Montag is defined as evil, because of societies expectations. In the book, we see Montag and his perspective, but we are also influenced by what other people. Those other people may view him as evil.
Sydney:I agree with that question. I don't think that Montag should be considered as a horrible person because he wants to do what is called "challenging the system." I think he simply wants more in life. He WANTS a reason to live. People go around everyday life like it is no big deal, same old same old. But Montag is seeking a reason to live, he wants to know why things are created, how they are created.
ZaccI think that both situations would be cause for suicide. If you realize that you are being oppressed and think that there is nothing to do about it i would want to die rather than live depressed.
Class:On page 96, Mrs. Bowles talks about how easy it is to take care of kids. She says that the 3 days a month that they come home, she "heaves them into the 'parlor' and turns the switch. It's like washing clothes: stuff the laundry in and slam the lid." Do you think that she realizes that she is saying that the parlor is brainwashing? Also, Why do you think Ray Bradbury said it flat out?
Kylie-I agree with what you are saying about an "easy way" to get rid of Clarisse. But, do you think that her death coming so quickly after meeting Montag meeting her made him make that realization so much earlier?
Zac C-I would. I wouldn't want to live in a society with no real free will. This seems like a terrible way to live. If I were living in that time, I would want to kill myself just to get out. Please don't take that the wrong way.
Meredith-thanks for your opinion, but yes your points make sense to me,but if you look a few comments up I wrote a note to Zac saying that I get how she got Montag motivated, but it wouldn't make sense to me for them to get rid of her so suddenly, I also hope that they do tell us, I would be very dissapointed if the book ends without explaining.
ClassDo you think that the society in the book thinks thats books are evil and radical or that they are confusing and that they have no meaning? (Reamember what the ladies reactions were when Montag red them poetry)
Emily -I totally think that Bradbury would have her disappear. He has such a dark style of writing, and he isn't one to tie up loose ends. Meredith I believe mentioned earlier how she was just there to set things in motion, and nothing else.Anyone ever read Of Mice And Men, or seen the movie? Clarisse reminds me of Curly's wife. She's there, and you can see as the reader how important she is, but in the story she's nothing. For crying out loud, Steinback never even mentioned her name! So I think it's kind of like Clarisse where you pity her, and you wonder, but then you know that in this time and place, she doesn't matter.
Zac:I do think the people who commit suicide is better than living in a society where the government controls everything. They seem to realize the effect it's having on everybody and can't stand it. I wonder why people don't try to escape the country. It seems like this is only going on in one country. So why don't people try to leave instead of kill themselves? Would the government try and stop them? I would think the government would let them go, since they are only trouble makers.
Kylie-I don't think that Montag will take action to find out the truth of what happened to Clarrise. I am sure he will always wonder whether Clarrise was really killed. In fact, I don't think she was killed, but Montag will never have a way to contact her. His memories will probably encourage him to live the way Clarrise showed him.
Kara-I think that the parlors are like brain washing kinda like it is today. TV is so attracting to alot of little kids and sometimes you cant pull them away.
Andy I think that it is a combination of the two. Mildred says when Montag is reading a book " There is no meaning" and also the ladies reactions when Montag reads that poem. She starts sobbing because she is so offended.
Andy:Society, I believe, that both are true. At the beginning, they were probably viewed as radical and evil. As time went on people probably did view them as confusing. If you don't have to read books, why learn to read and understand them?
Emily- Okay, yes they might end it and you could consider it incomplete, but it also would make us think, which is the main point in this book, getting people to think and form their own opinions.Zac- I could see why you would state that, but it suprises me that he doesn't wonder what happened to her more, if she was why he started to change his ways so suddenly.
Kylie-With the book ending before explaining, I have an example. My dad is an author, and he wrote a short story. It wasn't accepted for publishing, but I was able to read it. In the beginning of the story, the main character is talking about being raised as an only child. Later, he goes and picks up his niece. Then, he started talking about his sister, even though he was raised as an only child. Even though Clarisse seems important, the author may have forgotten about her, and the editor didn't catch it.
Andy- I think that they have been taught that books are evil and that they dont agree with eachother. With this in mind, they have come up with the idea that they have no meaning and are confusing because thay have been taught not to read them. This may have started with somebody telling everybody that they have no meaning, so this may have brainwashed society.
Zac-I think that suicide comes to people like Montag because they try and fail. It also think that people commit suicide not because they think their lives don't matter, but because they have a certain viewpoint on the world. This viewpoint might not be the viewpoint of everyone else.
Andy:I think it really depends on the person who you are looking at. The ladies that visited Mildred thought that the information was evil, and were overwhelmed by the "meaningless" words. Other people like Beaty seem to think they are just evil, they are as simple as that. They are evil and meaningless. I think almost all the people in the society think the books are evil and cause disruption in their quiet society, so they tend to try to avoid them.
Margot- Okay so if Montag was truing to live his life in the way that Clarrisse does/did wouldn't you be sort of interested what happened to your "role model"?
Andy-I think that society thinks the books are tools to feed the people thoughts that could make them think about how they could overthrow the government and change society again. The government likes being in control and doesn't want that to change.
Class-Continuing off of what Melanie is saying about Bradbury's style of writing (Dark), I'd would like to say that not every book has a "happy" ending. Our society has adjusted to every story ending in a happy ending, but I think what Bradbury might be trying to say that if we do not change our ways, then our society will not have a happy ending.
Kylie- I see where you're coming from, and I like books that make you think up your own ending. It's a conversation piece. For example, in Harry Potter, it shows what's happening 10 or 20 years in the future. That made me mad.
Emily:On the whole Clarisse issue, I don't think that Bradbury just "forgot" about Clarisse. I mean, really, that is like forgetting to go to bed. It seems that he wanted to make it like a cliff-hanger.
Kara-She probably just thinks that this is the easiest way to take care of them because she has no idea how to, and because they are never home she doesn't really know how to love them because love is so absent in this society. I think Bradbury said this because in the time period that this book was written, TVs were just starting to become a part of society and America had such a fascination with them, that he worried this was what society would turn into and used this book as somewhat of a warning.
Andy-I think that the only reason that books are banned is because the government wants total control over the society. The people that live there don't ever hear text so it is not an issue until they come across literature and that is to much for them.
It is very obvious that the people would be confused because as Beatty showed when he told his dream to Montag, he was really showing that all these famous quotes contradicted thenselves and to a person who has never read a book, that would be indeed, really confusing.
Eric in the inner circle -I hadn't totally noticed that before, but I like what he is saying. The people stopped reading, THEN the government was like hey, let's burn the books! Which is an interesting thought, how did that happen? As in, why did people stop reading? And now that they have, and now that the books are being burned, people who DO read (or try to) get burned! I'm seeing a bit of reversal in this.
Do you guys think that there is a reason Mildred turned Montag in. Do you think that she just feared for her life. Or just couldn't take dealing with Montag anymore
Meredith-Okay, but it is possible. I'm not saying that IS what happened, I'm saying it's a possibility.
Emily- To me it doesn't seem likely for the editor to not catch that and I would think that it would be something that was on purpose. So I guess we will just have to wait and see what Ray Bradbury decides to do with the character.
PEOPLE OF THE INNER CIRCLE, PLEASE BRING THIS DEBATEABLE TOPIC UP:)Do you think that the society in the book thinks thats books are evil and radical or that they are confusing and that they have no meaning? (Reamember what the ladies reactions were when Montag red them poetry
ANDY:Is that obvious? How do we know that the only reason Beatty lashed out at Montag was because he couldn't take it anymore. What the books filled him with was something that drove him crazy because he couldn't take it. What he read in books waas so fair, always with a happy ending, and he didn't have a happy ending.
Nate- I think that Mildred turned in Montag because she was done with hiding the books and wanted her life to go back to what she may percieve as "normal", without the books. This also does have to do with her fearing for her life because if the firemen didn't burn down the houses because of books, then she probably wouldn't care about them being in the house.
Nathan:I think that Mildred didn't know any better. She was so brainwashed that I think she was trained so that when she knew somebody had books she would automatically turn them in. Even though he was her husband, she was so oblivious that she did it. Also, if you recall, Beatty says that Mildred's friends also put in an alarm, so no matter what, he dug himself his 'grave.'
Melanie-Earlier in the book it was talking about how people just stopped reading on their own. So I think what happened is that once some people stopped the government was like we can use this to our advantage, now that no one wants to read we can make it so that they can't. Because of this they control everything that anyone does.
Melanie-I think what happened was the government got a strong craving for total control. They saw books as a threat, and instead of taking books away, and causing a riot, they created more technology. As the technology advanced, books disappeared. Thus, the government got what they wanted without causing people to revolt.
Nathan-I don't really think there is much reason behind Mildred's decision. I think she was afraid of the books and then saw no reason for her to be living with him. She always seemed apathetic towards him, so when she left, she left all her feeling, memories, and heart in that house to burn. I think the only reason she didn't turn him in sooner was because she didn't want the parlor walls to be burned down.
The ladies reaction to the poetry shows that books are not always good. Being aware and being responsible is not a walk in the park. Thought is not always fun, not always happy. Why do we seek knowledge if it makes us unhappy?
Kylie-I've noticed that with all books I've read (and I've read quite a few) it's well edited in the beginning, and as the book goes on and the editor, who is human, get wrapped up more and more in the story, they miss mistakes. These mistakes are the mistakes that my OCD mind picks up.
Nathan-I think that Mildred turned Montag in because she was under total control. She was so blinded/cut off from society that when she found out Montag's "secret", she didn't know why he was doing such things. However, she might have turned him in because she didn't actually love him. We were talking in the very first fishbowl about how they could have controlled marriages.
KRISTEN:How does the search for knowledge make us unhappy? That is like saying that knowing a war has come about crushes us. But really, in the long run, it makes us stronger. It makes us correct our steps and keep moving forward in a direction that allows us to step forward.
Kristenwe seek knowlegde because we are curios. we want to know things that we dont. if your friend is keeping a secret from you, you want to find out.
Kristen:It is natural for people to want to know how to get stronger. Here’s a question: can we know happiness without experiencing sadness? Like in the society, they didn't know they weren't happy. They THOUGHT they were because they hadn't experienced anything else. If we can find out what makes us sad there has to be more ways to make us happy. I think the more knowledge we have the more problems we can solve in life, not all of them. But every scientist wants one single thing: perfection. The more knowledge the closer you are to perfection.
Zac:I think you have a good point. Bradbury is telling harsh truths in all of his books. In a way I think his characters are a representation of who he is or wants to be. Many of his books have been banned. He probably takes pride in challenging the system and his main characters reflect that.
Kristenn-That is a great comment! why do we seek knowledge if it makes us unhapppy? we do this because we think that knowing things will help us in life even if it makes us unhappy.
NEELY:To know what happiness you have to know what sadness is. You have to have a tase of both.
The difference is school. Our government does not value education as much as it should but we have much more education than the society of 451. Education is what keeps thought in play, education is what keeps tv's from thinking for us.
Classi thought that it was interesting the way that montag reacted to seeing his house about to be burned. He just stood there. he didnt react hardly at all, didnt fight back. what do you think about this reaction?
Sydney:That's exactly what I'm saying. Knowledge brings unhappiness which makes us want to change that, but not by deleting all disturbing information, but by trying different tactics. We need that “bad" information to know what we need to change.
Kristen-I understand what your saying, but I'm not sure I agree. Are you talking about purely in this book? Or in our society as well?
KRISTEN:Ok, that is a good point. But what about people in Africa and other countries who don't have education? THEY think for themselves. THEY know what they want and THEY want to think more than anything. I don't think it's education that keeps us in-check.
DanielI think that his reaction of nothing was due to his complete and utter shock. If your house was about to be burned and there was nothing leading up to it, wouldn't you be shocked.
Daniel- I think that he was just trying to take it all in that his house was about to be burned down. I also think that he didn't know how to react if Mildred turned him in because she agreed to help him then burn the book when they were done with them.
NEELY:How does knowledge create unhappiness? Doesn't new knowledge TEACH us? Is that not what the definition of knowledge? Knowledge makes us better because we know more and can grow from our mistakes.
Kristen-We seek knowledge because humans hate to be in the dark. When you walk into a dark room(especially around Halloween), you immediately think, "Where's the light? What's here? Did I hear something? Where's the freaking light?" People become scared when they don't know what's going on.
Zac -I agree with what you are saying. I noticed how we always mentioned "government" in class and in fishbowl, but then I just though... what government, or who? Where's the power, and who has it?If we think about it, even today, who is more known, celebrities or politicians? World leaders or magazine covers? The media and propaganda is not controlled by a government, it's controlled by the people, and that's what this seems like. The attractive man is the "president". War is announced over a radio, not in a speech given by a politician. What law enforcement, what laws, and who's even breaking them?Emily -It's scary that technology is causing books to disappear. In fact, they are doing that today. There is this handheld device that you download books on that is coming into the wave of electronics today - called a Kindle, I think? But agh, I don't want to read books on a handheld! Feeling the pages, and having it wear and tear, and going to libraries... what's going to happen to books if this Kindle becomes the new way? I'm sort of venting here, but thinking about the disappearance of books... it seems almost nearer than you'd think, you know?
Daniel:It looks like he was experiencing shock. I mean before the panic comes in its shock. Shock seems to drain you of everything; emotions, feeling, even thoughts. Montag also knew he couldn't do anything. The hound was nearby and if he made any attempt to fight back, he would die. He knew he needed to live in order to try to change society.
REBEKKAH:That's the funny thing; Mildred was finished the books so she took the liberty of helping him burn the books by letting the firemen take care of it.
Zac-I think that society doesn't like happy endings. I saw Law Abiding Citizen last week and in the end, the bad guy died. However, I wanted the bad guy to win. That is how much control and censorship that our government has.
Kristen-Adding on to my previous comment:We seek knowledge because we feel that we NEED to know everything we could possibly know, or at the very least, know more than the person next to you. We have a competitive nature, and I don't know a single student or person who is okay with only knowing a certain amount and that's all. People might have phases where they feel that they know all they need to know, but that shortly changes.
Melanie-I agree with you. I know someone that has a Kindle(if that's what it's called) and he says it's awesome! I completely disagree with him. I know this may sound weird, but I love going into an old bookstore, with nobody else there, and spend hours upon hours just sitting there. I won't read anything, I'll sit there and smell the books. When I'm tired of that, I'll walk around and find the oldest book I can, and read it.
CLASS:Is there a consequence for knowledge?
Nathaniel:I don't think the society dislikes happy endings. I think the government has so much control that they don't KNOW what the heck a happy ending is! All they know is the normal reaction. They haven't tasted happiness yet, so how could they possibly know to hate something they don't know?
Sydney-The consequence is not being able to get along with others. With knowledge, we create thought. With thought, we create opinion. With opinion, we create a voice. Everyone's voice is different, and so we don't get along.
Sydney -There's always a consequence for knowledge. They say, "ignorance is bliss", and who can disagree? But consequences are varied. As far as knowledge goes, I believe there is a greater reward than risk, and really, without the risk, there's no reward. You can't have one without the other.
Sydney:Yes there absolutely is a consequence for knowledge. If you accidentally go to a pornographic website and you are to young to be able to handle that kind of information, you could be scarred for life. That is a consequence of having knowledge that you shouldn't have
Sydney-Yes, there is a consequence for knowledge. when you were two and you did something wrong that you didn't know was wrong did you get in trouble for it? NO. However, when you were 14 and you do something you know is wrong and get caught, you get in trouble. so knowledge does come with a consequence.
Daniel-I think that Montag just stood their and didn't fight back to his house being burned down because he knew what would happen if he did. He knew that the police and the fireman would try to retain them. If it needs to, the mechanical do could be brought out. If you were facing 30 to 1 odds, would you retaliate or fight back?
Sydney-I think that people who know too much, especially in school, don't necessarily recieve consequences, but are looked down upon for the amount of knowledge they have when it starts to highly exceed the average student because those students who are happy sitting as an average student feel threatened. They think that the smarter people may someday become greater than the average and those who are average will become looked down upon.
Sydney:Just take a look at politics. Because people have knowledge of different things, they people around them and they seem to create an opinion. Opinions create feelings that repel other opinions. Because of our personal beliefs we don't get along. Have you noticed some of the cliques in Middle School? People who have the same thoughts tend to hang out with each other.Some peoplce learn to get over their differences though.
CLASS:We put God in a box. All the time. These people have put themselves in a box. We say think outside the box because it is true. We shove ourself in this little space when we could have MORE.
classbut if you were gunna lose everything, you would try to fight back. it is in your nature. you wouldnt just let that happen. he could have done more than just stand there