Ok I have a question?Do you think that Faber could be continuing to role that Clarrise was holding in her character? If this is the case then maybe Clarrise really won't come back.
Michelle-I think that throughout the story, there will be characters that come along like Faber and Clarrise to further encourage the minds of the characters in the story.
Ok 100 pound rabbits... Seriously messed up anyone else notice that?
Michelle-I don't think Faber is replacing Clarisse, but rather acting as a resource to help Guy Montag continue in his understanding and learning.
Michelle- This is a good point. I agree with Janie that there will be several prompting chracters incolved becuase you cannot "overthrow" the government alone like we have discussed in class.
Michelle, I don't think Clarisse will come back because, to me, her purpose was to raise the questions that would bring Montag to recognize the flaws of the world and his unhappiness. Montag already knew something was missing, other wise he never stole those books. Faber, to me, stands as more of a guide for Montag as he tries to fix his society. Faber also represents Montag's will to fix his world, it is fragile but he still feels the intense need to fix the wrong he feels.
maybe faber is clarisse's uncle. They seem to think alike and are each very smart.
Aliisa-Do you ever wonder where these people are coming from? Where are Faber and Clarisse and Clarisse's Uncle came from?
Sam-Hmmm that's an interesting point, something I never would've thought of.
Michelle-I think that Clarisse had such a huge impact on Guy that Faber couldn't replace her but maybe Faber could have some sort of connection to her.
Michelle -As Janie said characters like Faber and Clarrise are placed in the book to make the characters think. Montag only becomes aware of his broken relationship with Mildred after Clarrise brings it to his attention and makes him think. Faber is a way to learn to gain knowledge through the books he doesn't understand.
Sam-That theory doesn't work because Faber has lived in that place for awhile, since he gave Montag his address. Clarisse's Uncle and her family have moved so it doesn't seem to fit that way.
Michelle- I agree with Melissa, there are different characters involved in plays. Such as the villian the mentor, in this case Faber, and the "confusers", Like the witches, could be Clarisse, only with good intentions.
Class- What do you think Faber meant when he said "I don't talk things,sir. I talk the meaning of things. I sit here and I know I am alive."
Sam-I like the idea that maybe Faber is Clarrise's uncle. You never know, maybe he is. Good prediction!
Sam- I agree, that would be an interesting twist in the plot too.
Class-Do you agree with the three things that Faber says about books?
Michelle that is a great prediction and would be an interesting plot twist.
Melissa-Maybe he's trying to say to Montag to live life, and not just go through it doing everything we have to do. Maybe he's implying emotion to be involved in daily activities.
Bailey- I think these people are everywhere, they are just afriad, like Faber. I predict they will meet and work together to overthrow the government.
Monick-Maybe he has a second residience. This could be like a hideout because the government has been following them.
Chloe- I agree with the things that Faber says about books becuase he says that its not the books themsleves but it is what the material in the books mean. That is the same with computers and other sorts of technology.
Bryan-I agree that the characters are put in the book to make Montag think, but I also think they are there to make readers think.
Class- Why are people in Montag's society afraid of what was?
Ssm-I guess that is possible, but at the time I can't seen any blood relation between Faber and Clarrise. But besides from that there might have been a connection between her and or her family and him.
Sam That is a great idea because they possibly got clarrise and now he has to be really careful.
Aliisa- I agree with you that the there are other people out there like Faber. I think that they just have never thought about being like him. They are not thinking about their own opinions, as at this time the governments opinion is the only opinion around.
Melissa-What was what? I don't fully understand your question.
MelissaWhen he says that I think he means he thinks deeper and with the deeper thoughts he is able to live his life more fully.
Melissa- They fear it because the government does. THe government manipulates the people's thoughts.
Michelle- I don't think that Faber is replacing Clarisse. Clarisse is what really got the free thinking started, and Faber is there to really keep Guy from falling back toward the conformity.
Sam Thats a good thought that Clarrise's uncle but thats bot possible because when Guy first met Faber in the park Faber gave him his adress. His address didn't change when Guy went looking for Faber about the books.Faber isn't just going to move next to guy then move out again.
Melissa-I think people are afraid because they don't know what is going to happen. With the government controlled like it is in the book, no one has to worry about not knowing what is going to happen that day. The fear of the unknown made the society the way it is.
Danny- Yes. Guy had to be prompted by Clarisse to take action.
Bailey-In our government today, is there the fear of the unknown?
Melissa- I think he's saying the one of the aspects of "humaness" is being able to think about the why and the how and if you don't think about it then can you really call your self a full living human being.
NickThat may have been Faber's second residence. I don't think that Faber is Clarisse's uncle, but rather someone with a connection with Clarisse.
Kalin- I also agree with you. the content of books can be found throughout the world. The thought of authors come from our world. The same could be said for technology, but in Montag's world, evenrything is so completely fake. It has no dimension. Do you know why the people of his society are afraid of the "pores" in books.
Melissa- They've been raised and brought up with and taught to fear being different, and so tey fear it. Humans fear change and they fear what they don't know.
Monick-If you think Faber and Clarisse are related, does that mean the other people like them in society are related too?
Melissa-I think they are afraid of what they will feel and how they will react if they learn their history
Bailey-I think that maybe all the people who still have some form of imagination and can still process knowledge and remember it have some connection to eachother.
Bailey-What I meant to say is that I don't think they were related, but at one time or another knew each other. I would think that people who shared the same ideas would at one time come together with those who have similar ideas.
Bailey- I think that there is a fear of the unknown in the world today. If there was no fear, there would not be debates or elections. People would trust people without wanting any facts to support that person. Today we want to know all bout a candidates policies because we are scared of choosing the wrong person.
Janie-Of course there is fear of the unknown in our government today. Fear is something that never goes away.
Bailey- Maybe not in a litteral sense but in a general term of relation
EdmondDo you think anybody has a second residence in this world least of all a poor old man? Also how do you think he is connected with clarisse
JanieP- What I meant is why are people so eager to destroy their history. do you notice how people refuse to talk about those who are dead. They cast away the thoughts of those who came before. Why?
Melissa- I think that they are afraid because they were never taught to think or do something different from the crowd. The Firemen have been figures of authority their whole lives, and they fear doing something that would make the firemen mad. That is why I think that people are afraid.
Bailey-What's an example of an unknown fear in our socitey? I understand that there's always fear present, but I'm curious about what you think fear is in our society.
Danny-I agree with you but some people also want to live on the edge and see what will come of the world if they make a bad decision for the people.
NEW QUESTION what do you guys think about the sand and the sieve?
Sam-I also think that that is a good prediction.they do think alike. They both make Guy think in a different way also. Good prediction
Danny-I think there is fear of the unknown in the world today too. I think the people in the society are so afraid of what could happen that they completely and totally rely on the government for protection and answers.
Bailey and Janie- All humans want to be certain of everything but since we can't we resort to avoiding and being fearful of what isn't common and known
Melissa-I think it's the emotion thing again. The people in this society are drawn to show as little emotion as possible, and what we don't know (from history) will never hurt us.
Chloe- I agree with you that some people are like that, but I think that most people want the result of their actions to be rewarding.
Inner Circle- I think he took the books without really realizing it. REmember how he tells Mildred that he didn't tell him about the books because he didn't admit it to himself. It represents his inner need for happiness, but the people of his society are used to denying their sadness. Without thought, they have to carry the pain inside.
ConnorI really liked the example they used in the inner cirlce: how sand is knowledge and it keeps slipping through and away.
Janie-An example would be global warming or cancer. We don't know if we are going to find the cure for cancer. We don't know how long our world will be here.
Melissa-I don't think they cast out their history they just don't talk about it as much as a choice. Beatty talks about history to explain to Montag why things are the way they are and while reading I didn't notice so much that people refuse to talk about dead people.
Connor-When I thought of Sand and the sieve, I think of Sand as a weight, like knoweledge. The sieve is holding up the weight, but eventually the sand would be to much for the sieve. The sieve could represent those poeple who want to keep everybody in check. So what I am thinking is that eventually those who want freedom of thoughts will actually be free.
Class-When Montag was on the subway, did you notice how the Denhams Dentrifist commercial kept on running. Montag couldn't think in his head. Do you think that the goverment or authority has commercials like that in order to prevent thought or talk.
Melissa-I think that people in this society are scared of what was because, honestly maybe they don't know what was. Think about it, Montag himself just found out the truth about this society's history. They just don't know the truth, maybe there is really nothing to be afraid of.
NickA second residence is only a theory and it is very unlikely that he does have a second residence. Faber and Clarisse think alike. They both see the world differently that what the normal person sees. They are more connected in their thoughts and not in person.
connorr-i agree with the inner circle. Maybe it goes along with the the gov. people who just go through the gov. without being touched are the sand. People that get stuck with troubles are the rocks and bigger pieces of the sand. the government is the sieve
Inner Circle- Mildred, as well as Montag's whole society, seems dead. They have removed thought, removed feeling. what are they now but machines like the beast. They see but cannot see, live but do not live.
Bailey-I think that those are great examples for our world today, but are these things the same kind of things in Guy's world? Or are they different?
Connor- I think, that because people use seives to often find treasure, the sieve is representative of that bit of amazing information that he can treasure, and that the sand is all the information being thrown at Montag.
tatianna, I disagree. The sieve represents Montag's reach for the tangible truth, for what he is missing. The sand represents the words he reads as well as that truth, but truth is so illusive and slippery, it is hard to grasp. This symbol shows his frustration at not being able to grap that truth form the written word.
Kailee-I never thought of it like that but I could see that happening. I kind of thought of it like having a song stuck in your head because when that happens it's all we can think about.
Bailey - I think it is kind of wierd how two of the biggest charaters in the book do not really have a background. They just show up, and become instant friends with Montag to spur his knowledge and learning. They are Montag's conscience.
Melisa-I completely agree. It is almost like the people in this society (other than Clarisse, Faber, and Clarisse's Uncle) have turned into machines themselves. They don't feel or love or live anymore.
Melissa not Melisa-Sorry
Melissa-I disagree becuase I think that the sieve is the human brain. And the sand is the knowledge that goes into the sieve.
Class-Who really caused the downfall of books in this society? Is it trully the people, the government, technology, or something else?
Bryan- I think that the reason that Clarisse and Faber don't have a background is so that they make you think about what their importance in the book is.
Melissa-I think that several things caused the "downfall of books." The people are the government, and the people make the technology.
Class-The reason that I really do not like these survey questions is because they are not yes or no quesitons. They all have circumstance and certain things that apply to them. These questions are not able to be simply answered with a yes or no then moved on from.
melissa-that is another point i was thinking about.the inner circle also said what you just said. people use sieves to find treasure and thats exactly what Montag is doing within the books.
Janie-I think they could be the same in our world as they are in Montag's world. The difference is that society chose to let the government take control of those fears.
Melissa-As Chief Beaty said, it was the government that cause for the downfall of books. He clearly state it was the evolution of technology.
MelissaOkay so I think everyone argees that sand is knowledge. I think we need to focus more on what is being debated more. The sieve.
Edmond Okay makes sense now. Its like in my banned book i'm reading cats cradle which has this religion called bokonoian whish has these things called karasses which are groups of people that are connected in random manneres and thats how I see Clarrise and faber.
Kailee-I agree with you because with the human brain it sorts different things into different parts of the brain. So when Montag is reading he is trying to retain knowledge from the book and he can't grasp it because his "sieve" won't hold any "sand"
Melissa-Opps meant to say it wasn't the government. They didn't put in laws or anything of that sort.
Michelle- I think that the surveys are meant to be yes or no so that they can spark discussion within a class. If the survey question was answered online, then there wouldn't be any class discussion.
Melissa -I looked up what the sand and the sieve means and one of the depictions I read was he is remebering a childhood memory. He found a dime (a bit of knowledge) and as you sift through more sand you start find more money. Eventually you find enough money to buy something.(the truth about their society)
michelle-i agree with you.i would like these survey questions a whole lot more if maybe, we could text words or a whole message to the poll and the texts from everyone would pop up. it would be a bigger discussion.
Melissa It's everything. Everything became faster and shorter, so people could do more in less time.
bryanh- I believe he wasn'y sifting for money in the sieve, his cousin told him if he could fill the seive with sand, he would get a dime.
Bryan-I don't exactly think they are his conscience. I think they are just there to challenge the system and help Montag challenge the system. What I was wondering when I posed the question about where they came from was why do they just show up. Do you think the book is going to tell us about their background?
Class-on Page 87 The story of when Montag was a kid his cousin told him that he would get a dime if he could fill the sieve. Montag was there all day but the sieve remained empty. I think that this symbolizes how the brain will never be full. verything always goes through.
Class- Going off the poll, DO you think that montag should trust faber?
Michelle- I agree that being able to add a word or two would help to cause more focused discussion.
I think that Montag should trust Faber because Faber himself is as curious as Montag is.
Whoever says yes- Why?
kaileeI really like that point. I agree totally. No matter how much you learn or try to, there is still more.
Class-Should Montag have trusted Clarisse?
connorWell, why not trust him?
Bryan-I agree because it seems like the sand and sieve could be translated into many things but with it being like finding the secret of their society but do you think that the sand represents the history and facts that have been kept from the people.
I say no. We see he has lapses in his judgement so he can a a bad choiceand backstab Guy. Then he would know his wrong only too late.
Allie- I think that Montag should trust Faber, but only to a degree. I he totally trusts this guy, that could turn out bad, but it's like buying something online. You trust that the company is going to send you that product, but you also read th reviews about that website before buying off of it.
Bailey -What makes you decide what is right and wrong? Your conscience, he is collecting books as a way to understand. He is trying to grasp the idea that society is giving him seeing if it is right or wrong. Right or wrong is a decision that comes from thought and what you feel is right, your conscience.
Bailey-I think that when talking about trust in other people, you need to trust yourself. Montag took in the ideas Clarisse proposed, and the things Faber has said, and made the judgement himself as to what to think about it. You need other people's influences and questioning, but you have to trust yourself to draw a conclusion you believe in.
T and Michelle- this is for you... Love Smithhttp://www.polleverywhere.com/free_text_polls/MjA4MTU4OTI5OA
silvana- doesn't it seem to perfect though this is the perfect opportunity to twist the plot of the book.
Connor-Who do you think that Montag should not trust Faber?
I believe Montag shouldn't trust Faber. Time has past since he last talked to Faber. As human his ideas and beliefs could change. He might now support the society. Even so, there is still the possiblity that he still has retained his beliefs, from the time he met Montag.
Connor-Because in the book Montag says when you have nothing to lose you should take risks so Montag trusting Faber is his risk.
BryanHe was trying to fill a sieve with sand and if he could he would get a dime. It's impossible to fill a sieve with sand as it just falls through. It means that the human brain can always learn more. You never fill your brain full of knowledge, you can always learn more, and you never reach the point where you know everything.
michelle- as I previously mentioned it just seem to perfect and good.
connorWhats wrong with a perfect situation like that?
Allie- I agree that Montag shouldn't trust Faber completely because, although Faber really wants to correct the world, he is to afraid. He probubly would turn Montag in to save his own skin. I think Faber represents Montag's will to correct his world, its fragile but desperate.
Bailey- I do think that Montag should have trusted Clarisse. She ignited a spark in his thinking, and it would have been like betraying her own kind (free thinking and odd). Why would she betray herself?
Bailey- Yes because if he didn't there wouldn't anything different in this story. He needed her to do anything else in his life.
Class-Do you think that Ray Bradbury continually referencing "love" has any significance?
Chloe- good point I see where your coming from, but it is still a risk.
Chloe -In my mind the sand represents the knowledge from the books and the intellectual aspect that is created through thinking, like many people have said books create thought and thought creates knowledge. Just like a two year old Montag is asking questions about the books he is trying to figure out the answers. He has a hunger for knowledge and he uses the stolen books to satisfy it.
Bryan-That is true, but do these people actually represent his conscience? Are they physically his conscience or do they represent his conscience?
Smith-thanks! That made me smile!!!
Bryan-Your right but it doesn't seem like he's shown a hunger it's more like a curiosity for books that could turn into a hunger.
Janie-I completely agree. We have the ability to choose who to trust.
silvana- it almost never happens like that in any of the books I've read its never that easy
Alex -First of all does this society have love, do they have emotions. Montag thinks he loves Mildred at the beginning of the book, but actually thinking about it he does not love her.
Inner Circle- I think Faber's seashell is different from Mildred's because it listens, it doesn't just scream sound at Mildred to fill up her brain so she can not think. Faber's seashell allows Montag to question.
Bailey-I think that the people are there to feed his conscience. They are there to keep his conscience thinking.
ClassDo you think this country that Guy lives in is America?
ConnorWell it might turn out harder later but for now it seems okay.
Chloe- I think the reason that it does not seem like a hunger at the moment is because Montag is still trying to decide between following society and breaking away from it like Clarisse had.
We are not in Iraq, we are actually in Afgahnestan
silvana- yes i guess we will just have to see
Nick-Yes because it talked about the founding fathers and Benjamin Franklin.
Alex- I think that Bradbury is constantly referencing love because, without love, what are we? For example, when I love someone, as a friend or otherwise, I fall hard, and they mean a lot to me. Like one of my friends that I made this summer like the big broter I never got. He's a senior, and he's leaving at the end of this year, and marching band will be so weird without him next year.