classWhy is montang questioning what he is doing now instead of a different point in his life.
So classWhy do you think that Guy doesnt really love his wife and that his wife doesnt even remember when the two of them met?
class- Is there a point where life becomes to perfect? Can adversity actually lead to happiness?
class- what do you think clarisse's significance is when she is here and when she is gone?
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Kyler- I think that Montag is questioning what he is doing now because it seems to have reached a climax and is ready to make a decent into him actually reading and finding out about the books
KylerMontag is questioning what he is doing now because Clarisse influenced how he thought and how he sees the world.
britiniWho would love that wife? She acts like such a pain. Maybe there is no reason to remember because there is nothing to remember.
Kyler-I think that the death of the old woman who owned the books caused Guy to have a revelation. Guy is now questioning the routine in his life because he has been shocked by the woman's passion, as well as the new ideas which Clarisse has planted in him.
melissa- I think that perfection is whatever makes you happy, it may not be things going the way you want it, it can be your definition, so i guess in a way life could be perfect.
Kyler - This is the first time he has had to think about what he is doing if you remember in the book it says this was the first time he had to kill someone to complete his job.
i think montag is questioning what he is doing because of Clarisse. he was perfectly happy until she came along and pointed it out to him. then he kept thinking about it and realized he really wasn't happy
Kyler-Because he is used to being told what to do. And now he has insight on what may be happening in this society, and that something may be wrong about how he lives.
Class lay off the questions a little and answer the ones already given.
Melissawell i think that it is imposable for life to become completely perfect. Although people think that life is perfect, when even just one person suggests that life isnt perfect it can change the life of one person who then changes the life of another. People just need someone to put the idea into their heads.
Ruthie-I think Clarisse's significance in this book was simply to plant thoughts into Guy's head and prompt him. She can be seen as a source of ideas, and difference-which the government fears. Because the government fears this, they take them out of the picture completely.
chloeDo you think it is because he has seen the "light" through clarisse
Kyler- He now has something to queston. Before Clarisse made him think about things and the old lady in her house, there was nothing to change. It was all just a daily routine he had to do.
Tatiana -He also had to kill someone at this point in the book to complete his job, this could make him question what he is doing.
i think silvana makes a good point about his wife. who would love her? she seems like someone he really never loved. maybe it was a forced marriage because im not sure montag ever loved her.she seems like a bother and she acts more like his child then his wife.
Kyler- We do not know that Guy has never had questions. I think theese doubts were always present, but Clarisse simply uprooted this.
tatianaWas he really happy? His smiles were fake and so where his laughs. And then that night he goes home to a wife you overdosed. I don't think he was happy more just didnt know anything else.
Britni- I can definately see why Guy doesn't really like his wife.She is so much like everyone else and everyone else is a little bit too concerned with being happy.It seems like she doesn't appreciate him.
Britni-I think that Guy doesn't love his wife because she is always arguing what he says and is so consumed by the way her lifestyle is now that she doesn't want to change anything. Also I think that she doesn't remember when they met because as humans we remember what we think is important and what we want to remember so she probably didn't think it was that important.
Melissa-I think that it is impossible for a society to become perfect. I think this because no matter what some one does no one will be perfectly happy with the outcomes. For example, they burn the books, they are buring books that make people unhappy, but they are also burning books that make people happy.
tatianaYeah thats my point on the wife. I don't see any point to her part in the book.
Silvana-I completely agree with you. He never really knew the difference between happiness and unhappiness. What he thought was happiness was just average nothing good, nothing bad.
bryan-i agree killing someone to complete a job would be a hard thing to do, and i agree that this is also a big reason why he questioning his job.
Chris -I agree with you, everybody has smething they don't like that someone else does, I don't like Arizona State University, but many people do.
Kyler-I think that in a way he is now seeing something that he's simply dismissed before. With alot of ppl they'll see certain things and they do not think twice about it but then something will trigger them to search for a certain thing and then they'll go out and search for it and begin to question and research it.
Allisa- I would agree that Clarisse was put into the story to give Montag the questions to lead his actions. In that way, Clarisse reminds me of the witches in Macbeth because, even though they both do not actually appear often in the story, atleast Clarisse cannot if she is dead, but they both put forth the ideas taht run the story.
ChrisYeah so he wasn't ever really happy. He only learned that he wasn't after it was pointed out to him.
I agree with Tatiana and SilvanaGuy even said that Clarisse acted more like an adult than his own wife did.I think that maybe Guy loved Mildred one time but he just doesnt now. Guys life completely changed when he met Clarisse and he could have just realized that Mildred isnt who he thought she was.
Silvana-I think the wife is just there to show Guy what and how other people act. He is starting to question everything, and his wife is there to prove his thoughts.
I agree with Sivana, I think that the wife doesnt play that crucial of a part in the book.It seems like getting this far in the book she plays as a road block to Guy.
silvanaI think his wife at one point in time she did have life in her but then after time she lost it because she no longer needed it to live in the world she was in.
Bryan-Exactly right, they burn books to make unhappy people happy, but it makes happy people unhappy.
silvana- i agree i dont see a bi significance in the wife. maybe there is though, maybe the wife was the reason he became a firefighter to get away from her and the house.
Class- Is it better not to know about the world around you and thus never have a reason to worry? Should we try to hide from the unknown?
Class- How do you think that Ray Bradbruy could predict everything that Beatty told to Montag?
Britni-Don't forget that Guy keeps saying that Mildred is different. After the time they put new blood in her after she overdosed, he said she was different. There may be something that affected after they 'cleaned' her.
Tatiana -He still would not have realized as much what he had done if Clarisse did not make him think, this book is based upon making people think what they are doing.
SilvanaI agree with you that the wife doesn't play a crucial role in the book, but I think that the wife is there to show how materialistic people can become.
BritniI think that when you say that Guy loved his wife at one time is a little inaccurate, I think he thouht he loved her but he really didn't know her.
Also the firemen burned to books to make everyone equal. They were trying to make everyone have the same amount of intelligence.
MonickWell thats a good point. She is just so usless and it really give women a bad name in this book. If it wasn't for Clarisse I would think that the girls have no brains.
Tatiana-I think that the wife is somehow a way to let people know that they should not become that and she seems to make Montag to want to read the books and make her understand so that he can teach her and maybe himself.
Class-From the inner circle conversation....Could Montag have had those books BEFORE he came a fireman?
Britni- I agree with this too. I believe Guy is changing. At one point he may have been alike everyone else, just accepting the ways of the time. Now since Clarisse's arrival, he realizes, he is not happy, he does not love his wife. He is deifferent and i think he yearns for someone to agree and be different too. Which Mildred clearly is the "typical" citizen of this age.
melissa-If we hide from the unknown we can never be happy. If we don't know the possibilities we have no clue what we can reach. So, I think if we hide from the unknown we will never be truely happy.
Edmond -I agree with you, in the first chapter Mildred is complaining about not having a forth tv wall. Even though they just bought a third one and they were paying it off.
Inner Circle- I agree with Michelle that he subconsiously took those books. It reflects the inner unhappiness Montag and his wife feel but do not want to face. I think Clarisse just makes Montag face taht truth.
Melissa- I think that it is better to know what is going on becasue if you dont like it then you could try to stop it.
JD-I think he could predict it based off of human reactions to certain things and what happens to people over time when life is easier and entertainment and easiness is a more important goal that people want to achieve in life.
kylerI think that because clarisse met Guy he started thinking. He connected withe her very well since they always talked. Maybe he read some of the books and started thinking some more.
Miranda-Well that might be a long time. Didn't the book say that he had been a firemen for 30years or something. It just seems like he got them during his times as a fireman.
Silvana- I think she does lay a role in the book. All of the characters in this book have a role whether it is clarisse to stir it up or it's Montag deciding what to do with his books. Mildred is there for Montag to teach.
class The cicrle was just talking about the hand and does anybody think that maybe the hand is the phyiscal form what the person truly wants and is clouded by the norms of socity.
Miranda Well I think thats a good point, he could have gotton thosebooks from his father a fireman before him, but I think he got those books. I think a better question when did he start collecting these books and why.
chloe and edmond- that makes sense. Milded is there to show him and otherS that he doesn't want to become materialistic like his wife. She is so focused on technology that she forgets everything around her.
Class- what is better, to speak with only one voice or to see all sides od a situation with different eyes, even if it means disagreeing.
JDThen what is her role?
class Sorry that last comment was supposed to say "not clouded by socity."
Monick-Yes, that could be, but I am also thinking about how he is so suddenly changing his mind about books. I don't think someone in this world could change their mind that quickly, even with the help from another (Clarisse). So I am trying to point out that he may have already been exposed to the thought of books being good, and then was reminded of it by Clarisse.
Kyler-I think that people typically know how to use their hands but in this book it seems like they've learned to control their actions and not be so risky in seeing what lays beyond their boundaries.
Monick- I think that Guy has always been curious about these books, but has never had the insentive to read these books and put them into action. I think he has always been curious, in taking these books, but always scared until now.
Tatiana- I think that Mildred focuses so much on technology because she is really unhappy, and technology gives her an escape from that pain. The happiness of this world are so hollow,no one can trully ever be happy.
Chloe- But he was dead on te money with people turning to technlogy for everything now. We all rely on TVs for news and we rely on computers and ipods and phones for entertainment. I think he is right about how we don't need books anymore. They are outdated for our day and age.
Melissa- I think that it would be better to see from different points, it will give you a better perspective of what is going on around you.I think it's ok to disagree with others including yourself, thats what helps to make diversity.
britni-I think that he started taking the books once he met Clarrise. She made him to start thinking deeper, and he felt that books would make things better almost.Class-If Guy had all these books why was the one he took from the night the lady died in the fire so important?
Britni-Clarisse did influence Guy to a point, however a series of events such as the woman dying, and Captain Beatty's speech also cause him to question society.
chloeBy they you mean the hands right?
Chris-We don't know if he had seen a person commit suicide over their books before. Watching that lady stay inside the fire may have been the final straw for him.
Melissa and RuthieI agree with RuthieIf you only read or hear a story from one point of view then you get a very biased view point.
chrisI think it is because this one lit herself onfire to be with her books.
Kyler-In our Macbeth word trace my word was hand. The hand represented the actions of a person. I think this could also appear here.The hand could be doing the actions to take control of a person's needs and wants.
Class- Do you notice how the words dark and fire in this novel? Does anyone have any ideas about what these words represent?
Aliisa-I agree with what your saying. Even the Chief, Beaty says that every firmen is curious about books and at times takes on and reads it. Even so, Guy has never actually read the books, he just took them but was to scared to actually read them.
JDI agree with you that printed books are outdated for our day and age, but now we have audio books and e-books to replace them.
Chris-The book he took from the house was important because he was really affected by the woman burning herself alive. He feels a special connection to her, and the book is just a part of her that he keeps close to him.
Cris- I think that the significance of the book was to remeber maybe even subconsiously, what he did to some woman who died just because she had an attachment to her books.
melissa- i completely agree with you. Mildred is unhappy and so she focuses on something else that will have her absorbed and not thinking about anything else. how do you think she got that way though? was she always unhappy or did she become unhappy when Montag became a fireman?
JD-I don't think that books are so much outdated for our day and age. Books just seem to fit different peoples lifestyles and can bring out certain emotions in people that I think the society in the book is afraid of.
Chris -I think the book he took on that night was so important, because he feels guilt for destroying all the womans books that she cared about so much that she would rather burn with them then die later without them.
Silvana- Her role is to make Montag think everything through. If she wasn't there he would just go out and do whatever his mind told him to because Clarisse amde him think. She stops him from doing that and makes him work at things like when Beatty came back, they stayed together in the kitchen when Montag was about to go put the books back into the vent.
Chris-I personally think it was important because of it being a memoir of the womans suicide for the books.
oops,that was supossed to be Chris
Chris I think that this book was so signifigant compared to the rest because the lady from which he took the book was still in the house when they came to call. I also believe that seeing this lady willing to die for her books empowers Guy to finally read the books.
Melissa-I think fire can represent destruction. People in this age are fascinated by destructoin. Guy and firemen are they burn books, they burn history and ideas which the government fears.
Kyler-Yes I meant the hands.
bryanI agree with you that was my point too.
Chris- NO DELETING QUESTIONS!!
mirandahe might have been holding onto those books because they were given to him by his parents or other dead realitives. Tis seems to be not so far in the future so they would not be able to track the books down.
ChrisThey don't stop TV because it is easier to censor as opposed to books, which once written are there forever.
britiniJ- If you don't hear both sides of a story there is nothing to question. Why, then, does the government want the world to think one way? Is it to keep peace as Beatty says or is it so that people won't see the flaws of the society, to prevent a revolution?
Chris-I think they allow TV and not books because alot of people can retain knowledge visually rather than reading a book but then we have to think about the others that learn better with the books
Chris- I'm not really sure why the government doesn't stop TV I think they will eventually though, or something like restricting what you can watch.
The book Guy took in the house with the Old woman was so important because it showed that Guy doesnt even like his job and he is unsure if he wants to continue this job. It also showed that he actually has feelings about what he does unlike some of his coworkers...it shows that he is becoming different from the others
Chris- The government can control what the people know through tv. They can make up whatever stories they want and air them. The government also fears interaction among citizens. Books are portable and can be taken anywhere. Tvs sit inside at home away from society- where you cannot interact with others- what the government wants.
Class-Do you think that Montag and Mildred stay together because of duty or because they don't know what they could do without eachother?
Sam-Probably not, but my whole point is, why wouldn't he burn them? He is a fireman after all. I'm trying to say that he has had some subconcious obsession with books for a while now, since before he became a fireman.
classDoes anybody think this is a huge example of man is born basicly good but is corrupted by socity?
those who responded to question before-Well if this book was so significant, do you think that the other books he took were also because of something that really affected him, or is it that he was jus curious.
Class-Did anybosy else notice how Montag said that he would not cry when Mildred died. HOwever, he started to cry about not crying at death. Why do you guys think that is? Why was he crying?
Edmond- I agree with this point. TV can be forgotten and never seen again. Books are always present, the ideas will linger longer.
MelissaThe government only wants people to hear one story SO they dont question why something happened or even the question what if...
Class- This whole question about love, do you think Mildred and Guy had an arranged marrage, and why do you think they don't know when they met?
Kyler-Yes, but modern day is not as extreme as in the book.
Chloe-Just like Danny said, I think that they stay together because it is looked down upon to get a divorce. So maybe they stay together because they feel obligated to do so.
KaileeHe has no emotional tie to her. The idea of death is horrible but her death, its sad but not very big deal.
Kailee-I think he started crying because of the shame that he doesn't love his wife and he knows he should.
Chris- I don't remember who said it someone said that maybe he subconsiously took those books.I think that it could possibly be some sort of punishment, not letting him forget what he did.
Chloe-I think they may stay together because divorce is not an aspect in this society.
Tatiana- I think Mildred, like the majority of the population, are all trully unhappy. They just don't have Clarisse to point that out. In their society noting is real, nothing has any matter, nothing has any weight. Their society is just so hollow with immediate pleasure which often is only satisfying for,say, a couple of minutes. She watches the TV turns up the sound so loud to try to fill the empty space.
ChrisI understand that they would be collectors books that he just picks up. He might not care what book he gets.
Bryan-My theory is that Mildred and Guy met through something that is banned in society now. Like maybe in something to do with books. The government would then change there memory or give them other things to distract them.
Ruthie- I said that about him subconciously taking the books. And that was EXACTLY the point I was trying to prove.
Chloe- They stay together because they have to. They don't know anything about each other so how are they supposed to keep a tight connection.
Bryan-I don't think it was arranged so to speak, but more of a marriage just to be married. Also, they probably don't remember when they met because it just isn't significant in this relationship. The relationship is simply just two people being together because that is what is normal.
Bailey-I think that divorce was looked down upon at the time because it was the fifties and couples really followed the laws and promises of marriage. But now in the 21st century divorce happens all the time and for alot of people it isn't looked down upon.
Kailee- I don't really remember that part very well but I think that he could have been so ashamed at himself for thinking that, so he started crying.
Class- Do you think there is a problem or monitering of a person's memory? It seems it is extremely difficult to remember anything. Mildred and Guy cannot remember how they met, Guy is forgetting Clarisse's face..... so on
Chloe-I think that tey stay together, because they "think" that they are happy. Mildred thinks that she is happy. However, Montag has been noticing that he isn't happy, but for some reason, he is trying to hold onto the fact that he loves Mildred.
ChloeThat may be one reason why they stay together but another may be because they just dont know that they are not in love.Guy thought that he was happy until Clarisse asked him and he actually thought about if he was happy.
Chloe-I think they stay together because it is societys expectation of them. Maybe, with books, divorce is forbidden. Also what would Mildred do without him.
JD-Yea they don't know alot about eachother so why should they stay together then?
AliisaThere might be a problem. It's hard to tell. some people are just forgetful.
Chloe- I think they stay together because they don't know what to do with out each other. I'm not sure there is evn such thing as a divorce in this society. There is also the possibility that Mildred doesn't know the true meaning of happiness unlike Guy.
Katie -That is a very interesting theory, it makes sense. They could have met at a Borders book store somewhere, but we don't know and it is frusterating me.
Aliisa-I believe that the government might be monitoring them. They could also just know that thinking certain things are taboo so it is just routine not to.
Aliisa-Yes there is a problem, this society is trying to control what people remember so that they can't think about it or look into it.
Inner circle- The happiness in their societ is actually very similar to ours. We like things to be easy, to be immediate. We all love watching TV and listening to our ipods. And we do like destruction. Why else would people write horror novels and why would people watch films. We too show no respect for life by giving our children violent video games and movies and fake swords and guns. This society is actually not all taht different than ours.
Aliisa-(continued) They arej ust preventing them from thinking for themselves.
ClassDid anybody else notice how when Beatty was talking about how the government had nothing to do with happiness. He said that not everyone was born equal. They were MADE equal.
JDBut they have been together for some time now wouldn't you think that they would learn something about each other and have their relationship grow stronger not weaker.
melissa- going back on the happiness thing. Montag isn't happy when he smiles its fake his laughs are fake. i think his job and his life in general make him unhappy. i think that once mildred and montag were happy but then they grew apart. when they started reading the book though, i agree with kate in the inner circle when she said they might be growing closer again.
Chris-Maybe Mildred does not remember where they met because she had her stomach pumped that one night where she took too many pills. Montag mentions that she is a different person periodically throughout the book after the people pumped the blood out of her body and pumped her stomach.
Aliisa- I agree with Silvana, I that sometimes people are forgettful, it could also be a problem.I think that these people are like have evolving into simple minded people.
Miranda & Katie-If the government was controlling people, why couldn't they get through to Clarisse. They would've known about her and her family. They would have tried to control and change their memories. But instead all they did was moniter them and made sure they didn't have books.
MelissaThey are not on the same level of horror and destruction of life though. We just watch horror while the kids in the book are killing one another.
Kailee-I did notice that!!! I thought that was strange how they dont want any differences or change. Why do you think they want equality?
Aliisa- I don't think they are monitoring there memory I think that they just can't remember anything.
Chris -I agree, it could have been like going to college you don't want a room mate, but you almost always end up with one. You know you are going to get a room mate, but you don't know who it is or what room your going to live in, but after a while you get used to it.
class- Do you think that this society wants equality or something else?
kailee-Yea, I noticed that. They are made equal by the government because they have no oppurtunities to excell and rise from the rest of the world.
Monick-They said that they were keeping tabs on Clarisse and her family, so they were probably trying to figure out why they couldn't control them. They have probably been able to fly under the radar and come up with some way to make their minds invincible to the power of the government.
Well if the government is controlling people and they couldnt get through to Clarisse that is probably why she disappeared. She could have actually dies or even maybe she was taken by the govenment
Monick-Well this is an odd theory but i think everyone else wants to be normal, but Clarisse and her family strive to be different. So even before the government interferred they always think for them selves and dont take influence from others.
Chloe- I think it is because they haven't known anything different. She has always been there for him and he has always been there for her.
New question- What does Montag mean when he describes his memory of Mildred as a young girl in a Plateau without trees in the middle of the living room.
Monick-I'm sorry if that makes it sound like im predicting some huge government conspiracy, but that is the only way i know how to explain it.
Kyler-I think that couples could be together for many many years but that doesn't always mean that they know alot about eachother. It is the couples choice to have the desire to know eachother.
Ruthie-I think this society just wants to take the easy road. They think that the government is just providing the best way to do that.
I think society doesnt know what they want. Like i said before, people dont know they are unhappy or even if they want equality, they were told that they are happy and that everyone wants to be equal so that is what people think.
Miranda-Its fine I got what you said but like what you said does make sense.Katie-And it is a theory that makes sense. They are trying to make the society perfect.
Class- Why are humans so obssed with things such as destruction and fire?
JD- I agree with this. The government would not have time to censor every thought, so maybe they have just kept the people from memories, this could also be how this era came to be. They just swept everyones memory clean. And they only have short memory capactiy. But how would Clarisse's unclebe able to remember then?
MirandaHow can their minds stay invincible from the government?
JD- So if he has always been there for her then why haven't they had the desire to connect with eachother?
Katie-I think that this society just doesnt even know any different way. The government has found a way to eliminate the educational road. They want to control people, and eliminating that road helps them stay in power.
Nick-They have been able to think for themselves and question the world they live in for some time now, so they have built up a strong kind of immunity against it.
Aliisa- Or it's we have become so lazy we haven't had to think or remember anyhting. Maybe they had to remember something for a job but after a time it becomes second nature.
Kailee-That is a good point. but they dont eliminate education just what is being taught.
Kailee- I agree and think the government simply wants power by limiting the people they eliminate thoughts. I think they fear thoughts because the people will see the flaws and overthrow them. Books are burned to simply eliminate ideas.
Katie- I agree with that, I think thtat the government is trying to take the easy road by making everyone happy, it seems that it is becoming harder work though.
Ruthie-Yes! Also what smith was just saying everything is fast like the people just want to skim through life and not live.
class- I have noticed that Bradbury repesats words a lot, what do you think he is trying to tell us?
Ruthie- can you give an example of some of these words?
Kailee- I agree with you because the only way they can keep the citizens from the revolting or demanding change is by the controlling the knowledge. If they other people read the books it could be the downfall of the government.
Katie-What is your definition of living?
Miranda I see what your saying but when and where did this family start defying the government.
Ruthie-You remember my obsession with metaphores? I'm sure he is trying to exemplify the repetitiveness of these people's lives. And that there are only certain ways to describe how they live. How they don't think.
New Point-When Montag was talking to Mildred about the lady that was burnt alive he was saying that it was fire under the bridge. There are different types of fire. Types that are dangerous and there are types that are comforting.
Nick-No one knows. I'm simply guessing on how greatly they have seemed to grasp their own ideas.