I don't think Clarisse got hit by a car because she was always talking about how many kids get in fights all the time, or maybe she moved away with her family. I think she's too smart to step into the street when there are cars going that fast.
Class:On page 45, Ray Bradbury uses some interesting formatting. Do you think this was for the sole purpose of emphasis or is there other implications?
Clairisse did not dissappear until after she made an effect on Montag. She was not dangerous to the government until she was influential.
I think that Clarisse could be in hiding away from society.
Zach-Why do you think that she would be hiding from society? She has no reason to hide or anything
Class- Do you think that if clarisse was hit by a car it was accidental? or do you think that because she may be a threat that she had to be "taken care of"?
Clarisse seems to be the one who wants to change stuff,and realize the "good old days." I see Clarisse's disappearance to the fact that she does challenge the system. People in this community don't seem to like this new change.
If she is in hiding, then what caused her to go into hiding? Was there a threat? Wouldn't she have told Montag if something was wrong?
Meredith-It seems to me he uses this formatting for emphasis and to help the reader feel what is happening to Montag.
Emily-I don't think it would have been that she walked into the street and got hit by a car. But you know how in the pedestrian were there is no driver I wonder if she wasn't following a law and then the car just decided to drive into her because Clarisse was not folling the law, although I am not positive on what happened.
Emiy:I agree. I doubt she got hit by a car. But what do you think happened to her? Maybe some higher power got ahold of her because she THINKS and questions society? They probably saw her as a threat.
Do you think there was a signifigant change in the way Montag acted during these chapters? If so, what change?
Jessica:I don't think that Clarisse getting hit by a car is not accidental. Since she is challenging the system, others most likely do not like her. I think someone purposely hit her to stop her from spreading her radical ideas.
I don't think that Clarisse was hit by a car. I think that because she effected Montag in the way that she did she was "taken care of" like Jessica said.
Class-I have to ask what you think of Clarisse's family. They said her family moved, so I am wondering why they didn't "take care of" Clarisse's family as well. They are just as much, maybe even more of, a threat to society.
Zach:I think that's an interesting point but what do you think would have caused her to hide?
I think that Clairisse was taken away by the government so that she wouldn't influence anyone. I think the government either killed her or took her away and arrested her family. The government is just cleaning the weeds from their garden.
Bloggers:I was wondering, why Mildred and Montag can't remember when or where they met.
Taylor:That, or she simply moved away with the rest of her family. I am almost positive there was a threat of some sort.Kylie:That would make sense, except Mildred was talking about how when she was upset, she would go out and drive 90 mph.
Jessica-I'm thinking that she could have potentially been "taken care of" based on how different she is and her uncle's multiple arrests. Clarisse is very different from everyone else in this book so far, although Montag seems to be starting to change and think about things.
Sydney: Maybe her family was "taken care of" as well? If that is truly what happened to her.
Class: Do you think that the Hound may have killed Clairisse?
Grant-I do think that there was a significant change in the way Montag acts because he went from a law abiding citizen to having all the books stashed away and thinking about things more clearly. Also, he begins to challenge the system more by keeping the book and thinking about how the firemen came around and how they effected society.
ClassDo you think that Montag really married his wife or do you think, like in The Giver, they were paried up and wed but not out of love?
Ya i don't think a character like that could've been taken out that early. I thik she is scared and in hiding.
Sydney:In relation to the whole family thing, I think that Clarisse's family is a threat but may not as much. Sometimes a child is more of an advocate for something than the family. The parents may instill a value in a child's head, but it is the child's decision how much to obey that value.
Grant-I actually don't think that there was a huge change in Montag. Because he had the books in his vent. He had done this before. He had a hunger to know more, to challenge the system in a way. I do think that he became more aware of his feelings, but they were definitely there.
I also think the theory of Mildred hit her is interesting, she doesn't seem to remember everything so would we know for sure that she just didn't remember enough to say that she hit Clarisse?
Anna:That's what I think has happened too. Do you think she's alive?
Sydney-Maybe they didn't move. Doesn't it seem weird how they just disappeared, and nobody saw them move? Everyone just THINKS they moved. I think something bad happened to them.
Taylor T.-I think that you could be right- it would make sense that she got taken away by the government, because she challenged the system. But how would the government find out about her? Montag wouldn't (and didn't) tell anyone, and it says that even though he meant to tell Mildred about her, he didn't. Class:How did Mildred find out about Clarisse? It seemed like she didn't know anything about her, but then she was the first to tell Montag about her.
Taylor:That's an interesting thought. When I read it, I thought that it was kinda strange. How does marrige work in this system? Does the government control that too? And if they did, for what reasons?
Andy:I think that they were married out of planning, not out of love. I have never read The Giver, but in this society, people seem to do things without even thinking about. Perhaps marriage is the same thing.
I think that montag is beginning to realize that when they are burning the books they are burning what a person left behind. I think he is becoming more and more curious and that he will begin to break the law and challenge the system more throughout the book. Do you think that he will try to change society through the book?
Andy-That is a good thought. I wonder if love has become a trivial thing of the past. Maybe that is part of what Clarrise is trying to show Montag.
Andy: That is a good connection, and is interesting to think about. It seems like they don't have much in common. The dandilion showed that he wasn't in love either.
Anna-I do not think the hound could have killed Clarisse because there was never any connection between the hound and Clarisse. I don't think she even knew about the hound. And why would the hound kill her anyways?
Jessica: I agree with Merideth, this kind of reminds me of the Chinese government. They were instances that when people would challenge the government, the people would just dissapear, and most people believe that it was the government that did it. I don't think Clarisse is in hiding. I think she may have been taken by somebody for challenging the system
Taylor-Maybe people in this society don't necessarly have many thoughts. This society is similar to ours in some ways, but also very different. This is one example. I love our society and our class in that we have always been encouraged to think. Mildred can't remember events from 3 weeks ago or the night before. It doesn't seem very surprising that she can't remember anything about her and Guy's history, and maybe it isn't important enough for Guy to remember.
Anna-The government may pair them up so that the pair would be the very little threat to the government. Like, a strong-minded person would be paired with a weak-minded person
Grace-Mildred knows a lot more than she says though. She knows what is going on even though she seems oblivious. And her Wall Screens give her a lot of information because she can talk to everyone. She may not be firing on all cylinders, but she does know a lot more than we think.
TaylorI think that Mildred works for the Govermont and is secertly trying to find people with books. That is probably she was put with Montag, because finding books is his job.
Back in the old days, people married primarilly for money and land, so I wonder if that kind of thing could be coming back and people aren't really loving each other.
Taylor:I think she might be alive, but either brainwashed or being studied for unusual behavior.
Grace-I think that Mildred is making up the story about Clarisse getting hit by a car. It doesn't make sense that Mildred had never heard of or spoken to (as far as we know) Clarisse before Montag had asked her if she knew what happened to Clarrise. Is it possible that maybe Mildred is a part of the "higher power" or government that censors everything?
I think that it's all a government experiment. It sort of reminds me of one of Jim Carey's movies where everything was good, the town, the weather, but in reality, he was on a television show from birth. Also, it reminds me of the movie "Forgotten" where a child gets stolen from aliens and the aliens erase everyone's memory of this baby for a test of the human race. The mother remembers her kid and goes around trying to get other people to remember...I think that Montag could be a test subject for the government/aliens and this "future" actually isn't true....just an idea...
Class-I think it is interesting that in a society with so much control from the government, firemen are bestowed with enough trust to be allowed to read books, what are your thoughts on this?
Anna:I think the government has control over marriage. It is just one more thing they have to have control over to make sure things go their way. They probably pair them together to create a "perfect" couple that will do good for society and not cause any disruption.
Margot-That's a great connection. I think that could be very very true. Maybe that's another reason Mildred and Guy can't remember when or where they met.
Bloggers:During the fishbowl live discussion on Monday, we were discussing the implications of school in this society. I found a quote on this talking about there wasn't as much school, so many classes were dropped, and eventually there was no school. He was saying that "Life is immediate." Here in America, we try to prepare us for life after school. How do the people in this society prepare their children for their lives if there is practically no education.
Jessica-You make an interesting point. Montag is making this somewhat more personal. He is realizing that he's killing the souls that people have, the love that people have for those books. Class-I find it interesting how most of the people they mention who keep books are older. Maybe they knew a different society before?
Sydney-I agree with you. I think there are things starting to change about him, but I don't think it has really "hit" him yet. What do you think is going to happen when he eventually does "change"?
Class-Is it possible that Mildred has a medical condition that causes her to forget important events? She could possibly be in the beginning stages of alzheimers. I wonder how old she is.
Meredith-Well I would dissagree with what you said about her whole family not being a "pedestrian" I still think that the thought that her uncle died because he was challenging the system would seem like a resonable theory. I also think that when younger generations have ideas, they normally relate the older generations in their families. Sort of like in families now the children normally have the same political ideas as their parents, and this is a connection to the book because being pedestrian would sort of fall in the catagory of some political ideas.
I think mildred is making up the story because she is jealous of clarisse and she wants to control him.
Garrett-I agree. Today, you see more and more people that are married, but not in love. Maybe this is something Ray Bradbury predicted.
Jessica-I think that books are so powerful because they can become part of who a person is. There is often a strong connection between texts that apply to the deepest feelings and thoughts of a person. This connection probably scared the government in the beginning of this book.
Andy:That's what I thought, that Mildred is a spy. I think that maybe the government placed her there and brainwashed Montag so that he thought he was married to her. Maybe that's why he can't remember when they met.
I love the tiltle of this section of the book. Salamanders are beleived to be so cold they could quench flames. Is thought enough to quench flames? Is opinion and intelligence enough to exscape the consiquences?
GraceI agree with you on the note that Mildred made up the story about Calrisse. Maybe she told him that when really, her and her family were taken away by the govermont and again, that is Mildred is working for the govermont secertley.
Class:I personally strongly believe that Clarisse has a hold on some books. How else would she be so different from everyone in society? What I can't figure out is how Montag hasn't realized that yet. To me, it seems that it would be really obvious that she is a book reader, just based on her view of life. If Clarisse comes back, will Montag discover that she has books and turn her in? Or will he keep it a secret?
I noticed that Mildred forgot about her suicide attempt, and she also forgot where she drove. Maybe she was actually the one who killed Clarisse and she forgot about it... or maybe she doesn't actually forget things like that but she pretends to.
Garrett-I don't think they were marriede for money because Mildred always wants more money. And they only have 3 wall screens, which isn't that good, according to Mildred.
Grant-I think that when Montag is, as you said, "hit" with the full effect he will be a threat too. He might become one of those people they drag off to an institute. One of those people who would rather be dead than be alone.
I'm not completely convinced that mildred is working for the gov. what makes you guys say that?
Class:I don't understand Mildred's character at all! Do you have any thoughts that could help me better understand her character?
ClassDO YOU BELIEVE THAT MILDRED IS A SPY FOR THE GOVERMONT AND WAS PARIED UP WITH MONTAG AND NOT MARRIED OUT OF LOVE.
Books are peoples' brains.They are our thoughts and opinions and experiences on paper. When we don't have a way to record who we are we loose who we are. Books are not who we are but they remind us of who we are and show us who other people are.
Jessica-Your last comment reminded me a lot of The Giver. Maybe there was a society before that had different ways, such as in The Giver. I think the idea of evolution is a key factor in understanding Fahrenheit 451.
Garrett-I don't think that Mildred really knew that much about Clarisse. After all, the only time Montag spent with her was on his way home from work.
GarrettMaybe she married him for the fact he was a fireman. It seems like that is thought of as a very important job so maybe she thought she would seem more important if she married him.
Bree-I agree with you, this society does not seem to have very intellectual popultion. Ray Bradbury has set up an exagerated communist government. The government tells people what to do, what to think and how to do it. Think about how reliant on these government technologies.
Eric-I agree. This is very interesting. Maybe it's to show the firemen why books are burned. It is very shocking though because the government has so much control it seems unrealistic that they would hand control to anyone else. The great thing about this book is the parallels and differences it draws to today's world and what could happen if we aren't careful with our society and maybe even who we put in the government.
Logan:I think that is an interesting point about Mildred jsut pretending to forget. But why would she "forget" about overdosing?
Garret:I don't think that Mildred make up the story about Clairise becuase she's jealous. She doesn't even to seem to have any human emotions, from what I see. I think she brought that subject up for a reason, to see his reaction. If she's a spy from the government, she would have to see if Clairise had effected Montag in any way that would then make him dangerous to the system.
Grace:I see Clarisse as different because she doesn't buy into the whole idea that education isn't important, and people should not think for themselves. Clarisse seems to want to learn more, and wants to gain knowledge for knowledge's sake. She truly wants to know more, whereas other characters don't.
Logan- I like your point, how do we know that she forgets things, because from what I have read there hasn't been an obvious point that would give a good explanation for why she forgets things.
Grace-I think you should look at who Montag is now. He won't turn in or burn his own books, why would he do that for Clarisse? Someone he loves and would cry for.
Grace-Why would Montag turn in Clarrise for having books when he is stashing things as well? I do agree that she must have been reading and taking in all the beauty of the words and applying that to her life.
andy-yes, I do believe that is a very probable idea. Again, like my comment above, I feel that it is a government conspiracy, testing Guy.
Andy-I don't think Mildred is a spy because she doesn't really do much everyday. If she were a true spy, she would have seen Montag talking to Clarisse, and she probably would have confronted him.
Sydney:That's a really good point. Do you think this book will end well for Montag or will nothing change from the way they are now?
Andy -If she were a spy for the government, wouldn't she tell them about his books? The house hasn't been burned so the government probably doesn't know about them, which they would if Mildred was a spy.
Meridith: Oh ok got it. Logan: i agree i think this is an important job but i thought a lot of people were scared of firemen.
Lauren and Bree- I agree as well that this is not a very intelectual society. If people can not teach eachother their ideas and learn about the world around them progress is impossible. Society in this book only learns what is completly necessary and what the government tels them. They can not create their own ideas and express them because of how much control is present.
Taylor:Mildred may not "know" about her overdose because she wants to hide her true emotions. I'm not sure what emotions she wants to hide. Does anyone have any thoughts on that?
I don't think she could have "forgotten" about all of this. I'm skeptical that she was placed there, but if she was, she could just be acting. Also, when she overdosed, and she is a spy, then what was the point of overdosing? Why would she do that?
GARRET/CLASS:I do not believe that Mildred is a spy. I think that she is a seriously confused organism. She might have been paired with Montag in this total control government. However, she is oblivious to a lot.
Logan:Mildred might be waiting till Montag leaves the house. I guess we will find out soon if she is a spy or not.
TaylorW:That is a really good idea. That would explain why she knows things that we think she doesn't. Do you think she is a spy because they are questioning Montag in some way?
Meredith-To answer your question, the small amount of preparation they do give them is enough, I think that the world is at such a heightened level of control that it doesn't matter if they know how to do alot of math or reading, because it's not required, all they need is the information about their future proffession, most of which they get when they are hired.Taylor-I don't believe that Mildred has a brain condition, I think that her brain is just shut down. Not literally, but figuratively. She is not really paying a lot of attention to anything in her life, and is therefore absent minded, constantly forgetting things because her brain doesn't recognize anything as important.
Kristen-Good comment. Books are our lives and our thoughts on paper. I can't imagine losing that because I for one love reading and books are so much a part of who I am. Taking books away from the world is almost like taking away school. We can't learn as much or see other thoughts or points of view.
Taylor:Maybe she was embarassed about it. I think its possible that when Mildred is ashamed of doing things she pretends to forget.
Bloggers:On page 54, why did Beatty relate mass (a scientific term) to the concept of how firefighting was in the early days?
LoganThe reason that their house hasn't been burned yet is because not even Mildred knows about the book that Montag ownes.
Sydeny:Maybe her being oblivious is all just a disguise, so that Montag will not be suspicious.
Emily: I had a similar thought. If she is a spy for the gov. why would she want to kill herself. Was it out of guilt or did she hate her job or what?
I agree sydney.
Class:On page 43, I find it really interesting that neither Montag nor Mildred can remember where they met. I think that shows alot about how the society they're living in today can really influence their lives. Perhaps the government did pair them up for a reason, and that's why they can't remember. Another possibility is that their lifestyles are so repetitive, so mediocre, that they just have no memory. This is because they don't really have much to remember, so that part of their brain doesn't hold on to the few memories they do have.
This novel continues to remind me of "The Trueman Show"I feel that Mildred knows that this all could know about some government conspiracy, but loves Guy. I think she felt that it would be easier to die than choose a side...again...just an idea
Andy:Thats true, but she feels the book when Montag is talking to Beatty. Why wouldn't she tell him then? If she is trying to get him put in jail that would be a perfect time.
Taylor W: He said, "Things began to have mass". I saw this as things began to be mass produced, like there was a lot of books, not as the scientific term.
Andy:But maybe they have a feeling that there might be books and that would explain why Mildred could possibly be a spy.
Taylor:Mass is a scientific term meaning how much matter is in an object. Firemen may be related to this because firemen in the old days protected people. Saving people may be like conserving mass and not letting any part of the measurement go to waste. Does this make sense?
TAYLOR:Beatty compares these things to mass for two reasons:Mass is a form of measurment, kind of like weight. It's how much something takes up. So these things, television, books, they started to have mass. They started to take up something more than fantasy. They began to weight a part in society.
Garrett:I never thought of her suicide being part of her guilt, and I think that is a very good point. Something with her, whether she's braniwashed, a spy or mentally, is not right.
that comment was to meredith...
Garret/EmilyMaybe her suicide was just an act. Maybe the suicide was faked and planned. I don't believe that Mildred is a spy but that's just a thought about the suicide.
Kylie and Logan-I don't think that there is a good reason for her to be putting up that facade. She isn't that brilliant or thoughtful to maybe keep this a secret. I think that because her life completely revolves around her "relatives" so why would she remember anything else?
Andy-What made you come up with the thought that Mildred works for the government? I think it is an an interesting thought..but I don't quite get what hints towards this idea.
GraceThat is proof that Mildred may be a spy because they really dont reamember when they mey which might sudjest that she is a spy and that Montag hasn't figured that out yet.
Garrett-Why would Mildred want to kill herself? I think that she overdosed simply because she is forgetful and she takes more pills every time she thinks she forgot to the night before. Her forgettfulness is dangerous to her health, but she does not realize it.
Zach-I agree with you. It reminds me alot of "The Truman Show" especially how the fire chief knows about Montag taking the book from the burning house. Its like Montag is being watched by a "higher power" and they are trying to control him. That would explain why Clarisse dissapeared (Actually, in The Truman Show, a girl tells Jim Carrey what is going on and she is picked up by a black car and disappears)
Sydeny: Do you think that Beatty is like Montag, and keeps books in secret? When he came to the house and talked to Montag, I thought that he was either spying on Montag or seeing if he was someone he could trust.
Grant-Maybe, but what would be the point? Why would she do that? There was no motive that I can see.
Anna-That is a great point. Maybe she is in this state to in a way control Montag. She knows that Montag wouldn't want her in harm's way. So maybe the suicide attempts, forgetfullness and ditzy act is a way to keep Montag from leaving or keep him caring about her. This would especially make sense if they aren't in love.
GRANT:In the book it says that he has pumped her blood before. She has done this type of thing before. She has been forgetful, she is forgetful. I don't think that it's part of an act, because even Mildred is not that good.
ClassWhy do you think that people started burning books in the first place and why people started buring houses and why the govermont is all messed up?
ClassWhat role do you think Beatty will play in this story? Will he be someone Montag has to hide from, or could he possibly start agreeing with Montag and help him?
Grant:Yes I thought too, but 30 sleeping pills is a lot, if Montag wouldn't have come home then and helped her, she would have died.
Lauren-Remember that it may be an act, she could be pretending she isn't very smart.
Grace- This is an interesting situation, I beleive that their brains simply don't function through memory primarily. They haven't grown up on reading and writing and that repetition which enforces memory.Without the practice of books, no one has that mental capacity for a lot of memory, so they really are just not able to remember the first time they met, its very sad.
Jessica-I think that maybe the people are learning survival essentials and knowledge inessentials.
Emily-That's kind of what I thought of after I posted it. I don't really know any motive, but maybe we'll find out later on, but I agree. There is definitely no motive at the current time.
Margot:I think that might be a major part of it. She is so wrapped up in lies and society that if she loses Montag, she loses her whole way of life.
Class-Do you think that maybe only certain firemen are given access and are allowed to read books?
Class:I agree with Sydney- I really don't think that Mildred is a spy. She doesn't pay attention to anything going on around, and her biggest interest is the wall screens. This could all be an act, but opting towards no. Andy:I think that if Mildred really were a spy, then she would have some good made-up story about how they met, not just tell him that she didn't remember. She acts like it's a silly matter, like it's just a joke. I still think that it's their lifestyle.
anna:I think that Beatty dies keep books in secret. He knows about many books and I get the feeling that he has read them. I thought the part of the book where Beatty was explaning the history to montag was interesting. I think that as the population increaced, ideas began to get out of control. When there are so many people there are always going to be conflicting ideas.
Garrett-If it was an act, don't you think it would not be actual sleeping pills? Maybe it was candy in a prescription bottle.
Logan:I think that Beatty will be more of an enemy than friend. I dont think that he is someone Montag can trust and I see him as someone that is testing Montag and trying to get into his head.
Class:Today, though there is not legal racism, it still exists. On page 57, "Don't step on the toes of the dog lovers, the cat lovers, doctors, lawyers, merchants, chiefs, Mormons, Baptists, Unitarians, second-generation Chinese, Swedes, Italians, Germans, Texan, Brooklynites, Irishmen, people from Oregon or Mexico." I found it interesting that the only places in America, were Oregon, Texas, and Brooklyn. Is there for this?
ANNA:I actually think that Beatty reads. He is SO full of information. He even told the men that he was full of bits and pieces when he was driving back from the fire (pg 40). I think that he is a book man, and he burns things to lose that guilty conscious. Like Mildred taking the sleeping pills, maybe that's the way she escapes and loses conscious.
Class-This section about people complaining makes me think a lot about banned and challenged books and how simple some of the complaints are. Do you think that banning and challenging books is lowering the level of society?
Logan-I think that Beatty has been in the position that Montag is in right now, where someone takes an effect on you and you start to question things and think more. That would explain why he didn't get mad at Montag for taking the book and how he knows everything about the Firemen. So Montag is trying to kind of help Montag to stop thinking.
Bree: I think that could be. Maybe the elite firemen that have gained trust get access to them.
logan- I don't know what he will become, but I don't like Beatty at all. He is a hypocrite. He has read books and is intelligent, though he hates books now and anyone with books...That's why he's Chief.
Eberger-Well, I feel that it would be very hard to pretend to be that much of a simpleton. How could you lead the life she leads if you don't believe that is the only right way to live.
Do you think Beatty realizes that Montag took a book? It kind of seems like he does but it also seems like he doesn't know because Montag has all the stolen books.
Logan-I agree with Taylor T. in that Beatty will be an enemy. Because of his position in society (Fire Chief), he's one of the first people that the government would want to be almost brainwashed to believe that "books are evil". Beatty will want to keep his seniority and get rid of Montag, rather than lose it and risk his life.
Class-Do you think TV is part of the reason Mildred is the way she is? TV has minimal content in her society which is different from today. At least some programs have content and information today. Mildred also spends a lot of time in front of the TV which could have a lot to do with the fact that she is very ignorant and absent minded.
CLASS:I am very curious about this one thing: When Montag takes the book from the house he says it was "just the begining". But he has all the books. How was that the begining?
Sydeny:That's a good point, and I agree. On the other side though, if Beatty is spying on Montag, do you think he adjusted the Hound's chemical composition to go after Montag?
Meredith-Maybe these are places Ray Bradbury lived in or visited? They could just be random places.Sydney-We know he reads because he was talking about the rule book, but that's about it. The rule book includes a history that may or may not be true. If he read other books, he would be very different.
In My oponion, Mildred needs to get a life.
Bree-I think that maybe very important firemen, such as chiefs, are allowed to have books in order to learn about the history of books and to perform burning experiments on them. Books are for learning, and if the firemen can figure out how to destroy learning, then they will be satisfied. It's almost like they are depriving citizens of learning or, as Mrs. Smith put it, "dumbing them down."
Everyone:If they are burning books, magazines, etc. that offended people, would they burn the Constitution? That offends the British...
EBERGER:Beatty says that he was full of bits and pieces. He knows AUTHORS(pg 40) How is it that he just has the rule book?
I like Melanie's point about how what are they considering media in the book? If they watch TV all the time wouldn't this be another way of getting bad information out?
Bree-I don't think that there are restrictions on which firemen are allowed to read books, I think that there is, however, a restriction on how many books you can read if you start to change. The minute the books influence you too much, I think they would cut you off.
Bree:I think that the TV is brainwashing Mildred and that could be why she is almost brain dead and always seems out of it cause her head is somewhere else.
Grace:That makes sense, but at the same time maybe he can get away with more because of his higher rank.
Sydney-All the firemen know authors. In the beginning, Montag was talking about "who" they were burning on certain days.
Bree-I do think that television has plent to do with this. Parents always say to their kids that TV will melt their brain, and there could be some truth to this. Watching TV all day probably would have some effect on you, giving some of the qualities that Mildred has.
CLASS:When did Montag's book thing begin? Where did this all start?
eberger:I think they would burn the Constitution because it is about how our government is set up. They wouldn't need it once they set up a new government.
Kylie-The TV and what people say are set. Remember, Mildred was talking about getting a script? A script tells you what to say, and so all bad things are censored in this way.
Who do we trust? and how can we trust them? If there is no trust we see what happens in LOF, when there is total trust we see F451. You can't regulate trust so how can we prevent our trust or lack of it from reaching the extremes of these two books.
Class-It might just be me but, as I was reading page 57 it surprised me to see that Ray Bradbury named so many different social groups. Do you think that maybe Ray Bradbury had looked at the most controversial social groups and thought about who would put up a fight?
Taylor T-I like your thinking about Mildred being brainwashed by the tv. This makes a lot of sense because people always say that tv turns your brain to mush, and in Mildred's case, this statement could be true.
Emily- I think that the government is only burning documents to keep them away from the public.I have a felling that they would want to keep all their documents to raise themselves up from the people and put themselves in a position of power.
yes. they would trash the constitution if they set up a new government, if you could even call it a government.
I agree with Melanie that the size of the community doesn't really matter. I think that it is only the United States because they don't mention any other places besides the US. Also how do you think our country ended up like this? What happened that made this kind of society occur?
Taylor T:The brainwashing idea is interesting, and I could be true. Montag never watches the "wall" for what I know, but his wife watches it all the time. It may just be coincidence, but it is a great idea.
great connection kristen. I think they ate afraid of something like that happening, and they are cutting off information because they are scared.
Lauren-I think that not only is it interesting how many different groups there are, but that before they are listed, he names them minorities. Is it possible that these are the places/religions that do not burn books, so in the eyes of this society, they aren't as advanced as they could be?
Garrett-I looked up the meaning of government, and it says that a government is "the form or system of rule by which a state, community, etc., is governed" So if there is a rule, there is a government. It doesn't have to be a good one.
Are the people on the wall actual people or is it just a program? Mildred seems to have a relationship with the "relatives" on the screen but are they even actual people?
Class-Do you think that the world has one main government and everyone functions the same way?
Class:Do you think that there is a war currently going on, with all the planes flying by? Do you think that this is a reason to control the people to keep the happy?
Class-I think that trying to determine how wide spread this is is useless. I think that we should just assume that it is global or nation wide and narrow or widen our perspective base on information given in the text.
Taylor:Your brainwashing idea makes a lot of sense. Maybe it's not even brainwashing as much as just making people not care about what goes on. In the book though, all the characters who don't have the walls think for themselves but everyone with a wall just watches that and doesn't think.
Kristen-I think government in this book relies on that blurred line when it comes to trust. If government has all the knowledge and the people have none, the government knows that the people will trust the thoughts and ideas that the government is putting out. The dumbing down of citizens might just be the governments way of quickly and completley gaining the trust of thier citizens.
I think that clarisse was foreshadowing for a revolt against the gov. I think she symbolizes challenging the system.
kristen- i feel that in a tight, enclosed group (like LOF and F451) people become either trustworthy of everyone, or no one. I appreciate the world we live in where we are surrounded by many people who we choose to trust and not trust.
Jessica-They aren't really relatives, they are people just acting out the play. For example, if you were in a play, and you were in a family, you would call someone "Mom" or "Mommy", etc. but they wouldn't really be your mom.
Yeah I realize that, but are they actual people having conversations or are they a program?
Anna-That's a good point. There very well could be a war about the book burning itself. That would explain the planes. I think it's like what we were saying the other day- you can't keep everyone happy. I think that this government is trying to defy that by making everyone extremely similar and giving them no personal thoughts. It's almost like Harrison Bergeron, but not quite as extreme. By not giving people the right to read, people won't have as much individual thought.
ClassJust something to think about.If the govermont controls every ounce of information, then they could make the people believe that absoutley anything.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Jessica- They are people on the TV because Mildred was talking about getting a script, and a new thing they were doing was taking out the other people's part so that nobody else knew what you were going to say. It's like a video chat, but with a set of things you're supposed to say.
Class-I don't see this as being a world at war. I think that war is something so big that they would not be able to cover something up that is so huge. I believe that the world is controlled be either one government or several large governments working together. This world is not like ours, there are no politics, people do what their gavernment tells them to and have no control in how things come about, this is not democracy, I wonder what kind of government you would call it.
FROM THE INNER DISCCUSION CIRCLE: One thing about that we were discussing, but I didn't get enough time to say was: People were suggesting that Beatty might have read book and then burned them, by HIS PERSONAL BELIEF and choice. Well, I think that it is very possible. This might be a weird relation, but if anyone has ever seen the movie the Matrix, one of the character was awoke out of the "pod" and because the real life beyond what the "machines controlling them" has given him, the new life he faced was harder and he ended up wanting to go back to the dull life. Could this happen with Beatty? He got a taste of the "real life" through the book and it upset him so he just burned them?
Bree-I do not think that there is a universal government. I would have to think that there are a lot of people out in the world. There would have to be enough people out there that would fight against this extreme censorship. Maybe America has gained greater territory but I do not feel that America could have taken over the world.
Class-Listening in on the inner circle, it gave me a thought. Could all this government controlling actually make citizens more defiant, and more "system challenging"? If books were allowed, no one would have to hide books and secrets from their government. Because of this rule, more and more people will become less willing to be controlled.
Where did anyone get an idea that the community is at war? Is this a physical war, or it a verbal war?
Class:Where in the text did it mention a war going on?
CLASS:Ok, look at this war idea. The U.S. is ready to go to war at anytime. This does not mean we will go to war, it just means we can. This might be a little blown out of the water.
Kylie-All the planes, and how people have such strong opinions about books, lead people to believe that there is a war going on. I don't really agree, though.
Taylor: It says it when they are in the firehouse the first time. The radio talks about how war could begin within an hour.
Oh, Kylie, I just saw your comment. I agree, maybe it is a verbal war. But who is it between?
Lauren-Thanks for that comment it is my belief as well. I don't think that America had the power to take over the world. I'm not sure but do you think there is a chance that another country took over America? Because I can't believe that unless each government runs their country almost the same way that nobody would have intervened yet.
Grace:I think that is an interesting point. Its like when your parents tell you not to do something it make you want to do it even more. There is so much control that some people will almost rebel against the government?
GraceIf someone grows up in a society, that is what people will think what life really is. They won't question it. They will just go along with life as it " should be."
Taylor W:It doesn't mention it, but to some people, it implies it. Like I said before, I don't really agree.
Kylie:Good point. I think that it could be a verbal war or at least one is about to break out.
Kylie/Emily:Thinking more into the war idea, I don't really think that there is a war going on. You'd think that it's something important enough that Bradbury would actually mention it, not just give you the idea.
Logan-I stand corrected.
Taylor-If it is a verbal war my thought would be that it is in between the people challenging the system and the government.
Andy:That may be true, but what about the generation that hadn't always lived without books? They could go against the government, and if they had any kids, those children would agree with whatever their parents did, because in their minds, parents are always right.
WARS UNITE PEOPLE AND THERE IS NOT REALLY DISAGREEMENT BECAUSE ALL YOU REALLY THINK ABOUT IS GETTING BACK AT THE "ENIMY".
Sydney-I absolutely agree with you. Every nation has the opportunity to go to war. War, in the end, is inevitable. There will be more wars in the future, but we are unable to predict just when it will happen and with who.