Class-What connections do you see between Harrison Bergeron and The Pedestrian? What does this have to do with censorship?
Justin- One connection I see is the perception of equality and happiness.
What do you think happened that caused everyone to try to make everyone exactly the same
Justin- I see that both governments are both very limiting. They seem to be power-hungry, limiting their citizens. They may try to have too much power, so that they have complete and utmost power. We see this in some countries today such as China where censorship is a big issue.
Justin and Kara- I see a connection between how the government controls the community the characters live in. Clearly, in both stories, the government or "Ruling Power" controls the world that we are reading about. In The Pedestrian, the character is arrested by simply walking down the empty street. In Harrison Bergeron, the people are "Handicapped" so that the people of the community are "Equal".
Class-At the end of Harrison Bergeron did Harrison die? I was confused because his parents showed no reaction to his death, if he did infact die.
Nathan-it said somewhere in Harrison Bergeron that over the years of politics everyone was forced to become "equal" this waS done through "handicaps" such as the bags of weights and the noise things in the ears
Nathan-I think that they wanted people to only think what they thought and so no one complained about life
Taylor- Harrison and his "Empress" are shot by the Handicap General with a shotgun.
yes talyort. Harrison B did die. he was shot by Diana somthing with a 10 gauge shotgun
Justin - I see restrictions. In HB, the people are restricted from being individuals, and in The Pedestrian Mead is restricted from simply walking. I see silly restrictions.One connection I made was the video we watched in class, "The Machines Are Using Us". The police car had no person inside. The people in HB had handicaps to control their thoughts. What did anyone else pick up from this?
Like my last comment, Nate, I see that the government is trying to control too much of their lives. They governments try to have too much power and seem to have a fear of chaos and a loss of power. If everyone is the same, that means everything is orderly, thus there is not as much chaos.
Nate-I think the story is just portraying the future and what would happen if everybody was equal.Then it shows how everybody is going against the rules of being eual and shows how being as equal as the next person may not be as good as it seems.
Nathan-THe issue of happiness drove everyone to be "equal." However, equal is never equal because of certain abilities of certain people. A society can never be 100% equal.
taylor-Yes he did die. the handicapper general shot him and his parents showed no emotion because their handicaps make them forget the things that happen so they don't try to use their brain too much.
taylor- Harrison did die but both of his parents forgot because of the handicaps and they coulnd't remember what went on
Taylor-Harrison died, and his parents were sad, but their thoughts are so limited that the time they had to grive was limited to about 20 seconds.
-JustinBut what do you think happened to cause the need for everyone to become equal
Class-In each story, why do you think the government tried to censor emotion and make everyone equal? Do you think that this is possibly a real-world situation?
In the Pedestrian, was the guy not allowed to walk ouside because he didn't have a job and they wanted all of society to be fair?
-JustinryanA Nation that cant think cant overthrow you.
Class-People who are smart are very much so discriminated against in Harrison Bergeron. How do you think that connects back to our Honors English class and us as people?
Taylor- Yes he did infact die. He was shot by the handicapper general.
class-was any one else confused about what happend to the pedestrian because they just took him away without another word. Anyone know why or have an idea
Class-Does anyone know when HB was written? It seems weird about the whole amendment thing at the beginning. We only have 27 now, and in 72 years, we are supposed to have 186 more amendments. Right now we added an amendment about every 8 years, but under these circumstances we would have to add two or three every year. This is totally unrealistic. Did anyone else feel this way?
Class-How do you percieve equality? What makes someone equal to everyone else? Is equality knowing as much information or being as smart as the next person? Or is equality having the same rights and being able to excel at what you are good at?
Nathan-I think that some kind of big disaster happened to a point where the government had to make everyone "equal"
Nathan-I think that there's always been a need/want for equality. A lot of people have fought for it (some examples being Martin Luther King Jr. and Rosa Parks) these stories just bring it to the extreme and make everyone the same. In my mind, the story is kind of saying that total equality isn't a good thing at all, but at the same time you must remember that equality is still important.
Justin-I think they censored things and had handicaps to make everyone "equal".
Who deserves power? Who can control another person? Who can say what you become? Who can control what you become? Why should anyone control what you become? Why should soceity decide what we put in our heads. Why should adults get to determine what students learn? Why should they control what we get to watch? What would happen if they didn't? Why do governments get to decide which books are morally correct and "age appropriate". Why do we let them?
Melanie- I agree with your thoughts on "Silly Restrictions". In The Pedestrian Mr. Mead seems like he is the only person left in the city, do you agree? My thoughts were that he was the last human, and that the robots (The Car) were in control. In HB the resrictions were an attempt to bring everyone to a same level. Harrison could remove himself from the "Handicaps" so he was above the community.
Meredith - HB was written in 1961.I think the amendment number was just hyperbole. It's unrealistic but that's the point, to show how ridiculous everything could be.
Dan-Like people said earlier, it seems that the government seems very controlling. This could mean that they don't want anyone to do anything out of the ordinary. The government seems to be very totalitarian in nature.
Taylor&Nathan-I just saw the comment that Taylor posted and had a connection to real life. I think that the "disaster" that happened could relate to terrorism today, which is happening because people are different.
Justin And Kara- Some of the connections that I see are the time period. They both seem to be more in the future, using machines to monitor the citizens. The government seems to be in control of everyone and everything that exists in the city. The citizens live in fear because the government is constantly watching them. They both have to do with censorship because in HB the government seemed to keep a lot of secrets and things hidden from the public to control them. In The Pedestrian it seemed much more extreme because the man didn't know why he was walking, what to live for or any reason to exist.One question I have is:Do you think that the police and government in HB were allowed to not have the Handicaps put in them? Because there had to be some form of superiority to make sure chaos didn't break out.
Melanie- With your thoughts on when the book was written, I think that the amount of ammendments shows how our communities were falling faster and faster into the restrictions. Each time there is an ammendment, it means we were doing something "Wrong" and it needed to be changed. This shows how we continued to find fault in our actions. This could lead to the restrictions? Thoughts?
I think maybe the man wasn't allowed by the police to walk outside because the police were fearful that his life didn't have normal structure. The police were probably just afraid that a man not following the norms could be a threat to the establish society.
Kara - In my opinion, equality is how people are treated, not their abilities. As long as everyone is given the same chance to do what they want in life, then only they can decide what to do with that.To me, equal is not "the same", not in people. Equal is treatment of people.
Bree- I think that it is different in our english class. In Harrison Bergeron, they were discriminated but in our english class we are encouraged to meet our full potential. Sure, there are some people who think that if you are smart you should be an outcast but it should not matter what they think, it matters what you think.
Kristen-No one really deserves to tell us what we can read/see. Though this true, governments today, even the United States, still limit everyone though their actions. We give this power to our government, though we do not realize it.
Kara-I perceive equality as nobody being treated poorly or better than somebody else. I feel that equality is also giving everyone the same rights and having opportunities prevalent to you and your need. People being equal to each other seems like it has the most to do with how we treat each other and help each other to meet everyone's individual needs
Kara-I think that equality is when everybody has equal rights. However these stories took it to a whole new level to a point where everybody had to be equal with everything including their looks and abilities.
Kristen- I agree with you. I think that the two stories are showing how when everybody is equal, society is not the same and people can become very unhappy. Also, I don't think that one person has a say in how smart you are or what you do everyday. When everybody is equal, there is no difference between people.
Neely-I don't think that the police or government had handicaps. Especially not Diana Moon Glampers, the Handicapper General. Because if everyone was equal then the country would probably crumble because of short attention span and memory loss. Plus if Diana Moon Glampers was equal to everyone else, then why did she have a gun? Did George or Hazel have guns? I mean she is not equal and she is definetly not practicing what she preaches.
Neely-In Harrison Bergeron, I don't think the police and government had handicaps. I don't think this because they were the ruling government, so they probably somehow considered themselves better (in a way)than everyone else. They also had the power to not have to wear them because they were the ones forcing them on others.
Class-What does happiness mean? Why do societies believe that happiness is equality?
Zac-I do agree with you. I think that the main character in The Pedestrian was the only person left in the entire city. It seemed like the Police Cars cleared out the entire city because of unjust laws to hold the people against their will.
Class, Even though I do not agree with everybody being equal, does the government still have some say in what we do or believe?
Nathan-How do you think we would be treated in this story and what would happen if a class like this existed?? How would we as students and people be treated for being smart?
Rebekkah-I agree. I think that equality is looked at as a good thing but the level of equality in these stories is too crazy and can just bring about bad instead of good.
Zac, I completely agree. Almost like a chain reaction. This goes wrong, then that, and instead of going back and looking at the amendments before, they create new ones. It's a loss of control.
Class-Has anyone ever read The White Mountains? HB reminds me of this book because it is also about controlling others. The monsters try to degrade everyone so that they have the utmost power. Does anyone else have any else have any thoughts on this?
Class- In the Pedestrian, we are looking at an "I Am Legend" situation. There is one man left and the police or robots are now the ruling power. Do they see fault in Mr. Mead because he is human, or do they see him as a threat?
MARGOT- i agree with you. i mean it is weird that they didn't want him to walk after he has been walking all those years, but they thought that he could be a threat, so they took him to a physiactric center.
Melanie-To respond to your question to my answer, I would like to add that they cared about their ablities in Harrison Bergeron.
Class-do you think that these books should have been written differently? (for example, instead of Harrison Bergeron getting shot, do you think that the government should have been overthrown by him?) Also, how would changing the book effect the readers perception of how the book connects to censorship?
It seems to me that perhaps the people that created the government, wanted more power for themselves instead of equality for others. If one person or a small group of people could control the minds of all people and dumb down the more intelligent population, they would have so much power and influence. The "equality" excuse might just cover up the search for power.
People are so much more cooperative when they cannot make descions for themselves.
Meredith- I did read the White Mountains and I just now made that connection when you said that. That book also had people rebelling when they had to be as equal as the next person. In the end, nobody was happy with being controlled by another person and I thinkt hat these stories are showing the equality may not be as good as everyone thinks.
Kristen-I agree with your comment. If the people in Harrison Bergeron weren't handicapped like they were, then the government wouldn't be able to force equality on people.
Zac-I think that the police see Mr. Mead as a threat. The think it is a threat to society to notice things and think. They don't know if he is planning to plot against them or thinking about cheeseburgers. They definetly take him as a threat.
Rebekkah:I think the government does control us. Take movies for example. The ratings limit who can see a movie. I think that the government does control us even with their decisions. If we see someone go to war, and one admires that person, chances are that person B will think that war is OK. It seems that others influence us, because we mimic others.
Class-In Harrison Bergeron do you think that the handicap general and other people high up in the government were required to have handicaps??
Justin- I think that HB was written in theway to show that in the future, the author believes that anyone different will be "Removed". I think if the power was overthrown by Harrison, the story would have a completely different message.
Rebekkah-I haven't read the White Mountains but I agree with the rebellion part. I think that when there is that much of "equality" it will make people become rebellious and wanting to be different.
Justin- I think that the book did have a reasonable ending. This ending shows that when society gets to out of control with making everybody equal, it may not have a good ending. I do think that the book should have had an ending where the government was overthrown, but the real ending shows a little more reality.
Neely- I think that they did not give the police handicaps so there would be order. If you have everybody on the same level, you could not have some fear/peace in the "world". I also think that they did that so that they didn't have to worry about problems like that.
CLASS and mainly Justin and Kara:If the people like Dana Moon Glampers, the police, were superior to the public then do you think people were selected to be the police had to wear handicaps that wouldn't make them equal to the "normal" citizens, but equal within their own "kind." It seems the government does want everyone to be equal and this may sound weird, but maybe the government is allowing different “levels” of equality? Does anyone believe this? Do you think that the Police were also closely monitored, but not as limited? And how do you think they chose the people who were going to be police?
I think that Harrison shouldn't have died, the story ended way too fast.
Bree- That is a good question, but I don't think so. I think that the story is portraying that there needs to obe a higher power to keep everybody else in line. I do, however, think that they should be as equal as everybody else since they are trying to enforce these laws.
Bree- Most of the posts answering me will help you since your question is mine just worded differently.
Zach-I think Harrisons death was fast but important to the story. His death showed the power of these handicapps. Harrisons parents could not even remember their own sons death.
Rebekkah-I agree with your comment but to add on to it, think about what the book would have been like if after seeing Harrison Bergeron getting shot everyone rose up against the government. The books message would change from: when society gets out of control with making everybody equal it may not have a good ending. To something maybe about how the government shouldnt control things like that. It relates to Macbeth in a way because Macbeth tried to control his own destiny (destiny being a higher power) and the government is trying to control everyone and force equality upon them.
Neely-I just saw that! What do you think??I feel that the police probably were, but the handicap general almost definitely did not.
Why do we crave power?
Zach- I agree with you, but I think that the story shows that the government may get out of hand when it gets too powerful and it may not have a good ending. When citizens cooperate with the laws of the government for a while, it will become consistant for them and the government becomes too powerful, so nobody tries to change the rules or be different.
Bloggers:Why do you think that we need power? Everyone in these stories seem to want power and domination in society? Any thoughts?
Taylort2013,He did die but his parents forgot that he died because of their disabilites. Their thoughts werer scattered.
Neely-I think that you are right about the government having different levels of handicaps and equality. So that you would have a different level of equality for each social ranking. For example, the regular middle class citizens had big handicaps such as the ear device and bags of weights, but the police probably didn't have such handicaps because its the police's job to keep everything/everyone in control.
I agree Zac. I think that he should have had a fighting chance to try and survive. After Harrison was shot I think that they ended it quite well. It was interesting how the mother couldn't even remember something so crucial and hurtful. If people knew that they were living in these horrible times where everyone tried to appear equal, then why do you think that people would keep the species going? Maybe some hoped that this would change over time or it was just instinct--because everything else they had was stripped away.
Meredith-I think that it is just natural to crave power. I mean if you look around at the animal kingdom, the strongest survive and the ones with the most power thrive.
Class-Do you think that the "equality" in Harrison Bergeron and The Pedestrian would be good in the real-world with all of the situations such as terrorism? Why do you think that it is/isn't?
Bloggers:If someone had more weights than another isn't that defying equailty?
Meredith- I think that the stories are trying to send the message that it's okay if everybody is different. It also shows how when one person thinks that they are better than another person, no good will come out of it. People want power to be better than everybody else and because every person has a little bit of greed inside of them.
Justin-I do not think that the "equality" in Harrison Bergeron would be good in real life because everbody has something that they can do and something that the next peron can't. I don't really know how that would tie in with terrorism though, Could you explain that?
-JustinI think it could be in some cases. If all of the people in the Middle East there wouldn't be inter-religious fighting. But it isn't good to make everyone equal in every way.
Neely-That is EXACTLY what I am saying. No society is ever equal. No matter what, something is not going to be equal. It maybe the ruler of the country or the police or even a doctor but "equality" is NEVER really equal.
Neely- If everybody had the same amount of weights, then they might as well not have any weights at all. Some people have better advantages than others, so they are trying to make it equal. This may sound cheesy, but it's sort of like when you add five ounces of water to cups that have 9 ounces and 4 ounces. If you add the same amount of water to each one, like 5 ounces, then the cup with more water will always have 5 more ounces. I dont know if you get what I'm trying to say, but they need to add more weights to the people who are potentially more powerful.
Kara-Terrorism was created over differences. People in other countries may not like America as much just because of something like our religious beliefs or maybe because we have a better quality of life than they do. The way it ties in is because if the style of equality shown in HB and TP was happening all around the world, then there would not be any differences which would eliminate all terrorism in the world. This is shown in The Pedestrian because there is only 1 police car because of the major decrease in crime.
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Class-In Harrison Bergeron do you think Harrison knew he was going to die? And if he did why do you think he continued to keep going? Do you think he felt dying was better than living in a world where nobody could be themself?
-RebekkahI understand what you are trying to say. The weights have to be proportional to the size and abilities of a person.
Neely- Yes, that is defying equality. However, there is always going to be a person that excels more than you at a certain talent. If you are the second or third best in a group, why do you compare yourself to the best? Is it because of pride? If you are second best, you can pride yourself on being better than someone else?
JustianThis equality would not work in the real world because people would uprise because some people would not like the society or like me, I would go to canada.
Justin-Thank you for clearing it up. And to answer the earlier question,No,I do not think it would have stopped terrorism. Terrorists don't just plot against americans, they plot against everyone, including their own kind. People will dislike each other even if they were equal.
Bree-I see this as almost a legacy. Take the civil rights leaders for example. Rosa Parks for example was OK with dieing if she encouraged someone else to pick-up her cause.
ClassIf you were in the pedestrian's situtation, what would you do?
CLASS!:About what we talked about in class. The million dollar question about what we were talking about:What about the people who challenge the system?
Kristen-Do you really feel that not everyone has talents? Because I know that everyone I know is talented in some way. Maybe they aren't the best at sports or school but they are kind, understanding, passionate people. At least for me I think that is more important that any smarts or athletics could ever be. Any maybe certain people have greater voices, but that might be because the people who could be great never have the opportunities.
Bree- Yes, I think HB knew that he was going to die. I bet he knew that it was better to die reather than have to be under all of those handicaps.