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Class-I didn't understand what they were talking about when Montag and his wife were talking about buying walls.
The walls are tv screens from what i gathered.
Class-What do you think happened to Clarisse, because on page 32 Guy notices that she is gone?
Ok so on the topic of the inner-circle conversation-I think that on reason that guy has more emotion coming from him because he is the main character so far and if there was no one to show the reader that point of view then the book wouldn't be interesting.
class-Okay I have a question. Its a little like what they are doing in the middle. Why do you think that Guy and the new girl have more emtions and think deeper?
Katie-I didn't get it either. I thought they were talking about large virtual televisions or something. Can someone explain what they are? Because I am sure my guess is not correct.
ChrisI think that she was either forced to go to school or taken somewhere else because of her free thinking.
Chris-I think she is gone because she has done all that she needed to in Guy's life. She has done her duty and she doesnt want to interfer any more.
Miranda and Josh-Thank you but are the tvs in place of the walls, like there is no wall without a tv?
KatiewThe walls are basically interactive television screens. The author uses those T.V. screens to show what happens when one becomes so dependent on technology that it becomes their life, their family, and the ignore everything else.
ChrisI think she will come back; she is to different to just go away.
Katie- The walls are huge screens
Silvana-I believe that they are the only ones with new emotions becuase they are the only ones who need the emotions or need to feel that change. The girl also learned from her family which made her have new opinions.
Silvana-First off I think that Clarrasie caused Guy to think deeper. Also, I think that she thought deeper and has more emotions because of her uncle. Her uncle learned more of the past and thought more about these past experiences, causing him to think more.
I am still confused on what the walls are. What do they exactly do, I never actually got what they were used for.
Class- What is the underlying flaw in Montag's world?
Miranda- I thought the same thing. Why do you think the author did that? I did not understand it at all.
Katie, Josh, Miranda-I also have no idea what these thinigs are. I like the interpretation coming from the inner-circle. About the tv's.
katie and chris-I don't think Clarisse will be gone for long. Her importance in this novel is huge, considering she shows a whole new perspective.
Katie and MirandaI think that the walls are turned into projector screens to some extent.
Monick-They are interactive screens that the homeowner can use to commnicate with other people around the city. (I think?)
ChrisWhere did her Uncle learn of the past though?
Melissa-I understand what you mean when you say they are dependent on technology, but if they are then why can they not use technology to get rid of the books?
KateIts easy to see that Clarisse won't come back. I don't think the book revolves around her, but about the ideas she planted in Guy.
michelle-i agree with you when you are saying that you think guy has more emotion because he IS the main character. no one would want to read a book with no emotion. it wouldn't be interesting and think about it. where would the problems in the book be without emotion?
Ryan-I agree with the conversation in the inner circle. They are talking about how the televisions are representative of how these people are so dependant on technology.
Outer-circle:What are your views on the mechnical hound that is at the firehouse? I have different interpretations of what it could possible symbolize and I was just wondering what you guys thought.
Josh-Are they? Or are they like LED screens? I like yor projection theory. Could that possibly mean more technology use?
KatieW,I believe that they could use technology to get rid of books, but it is easier to just pour kerosene on them and burn down the house. The fire is much more frightening and powerful, it makes people less eager to disobey.
Kate-I agree with Monick because even though she is important her role was complete when she planted the seed in Guy's head.
Katie- I think she was so different from what these people are supposed to be, that the government just decided that it would be better if she was not in the real world.Silvana-He learned these things from the past because the book said either his father or grandfather taught him those things. This also raises another question:If the uncle knows things of the past why dont any of the other people in this time know these things?
What do you think the society is like and what do you think happened to our government today that made it like the books?
MichelleI was confused on what the Hound was. Was is a robotic dog or a bee? could someone please clarify?
Michelle-I think it obviously symbolizes why Guy is such an outsider to this world, why he can think for himself. (When the hound growls at him)
JoshIt was like a robotic dog but with six legs or something. But I guess it had the look of a hound.
CLASS: NEW QUESTION:Why do you think the author brought a different character like Clarisse into the book?
I agree with Monick; it's similar to the witches' role in Macbeth, they merely plant the seeds, and let the character develope on their own.
Miranda It cold very well be LED systems like the ones at baseball games and basketball games.
Josh- It was a robotic dog that the fire house owned. I'm sure their modern police force would own one as well.
Kate-To challenge the system and to help Guy think for himself, causeing him to challenge the system.
Silvana -Her Uncle learned about the past through text and books which is supposed to be destroyed, which I think is Montag's job. This is kind of parallel to a video game called assassin's creed in the game there is a chief scholar that is trying to destroy all the books in the city, because they are evil and wrong. With knowing that this stuff is evil and wrong then we could improve future life and the way of life.
ClassI have another question. What are the sea shell things in Guy's wifes ears? I don't get it.
The only thing that I see coming back that has to do with Clarisse is her ideas. Through out the book I am guessing Guy will refer to her words and wonder what she saw in the world.
Michelle- I think that the robotic dog symbolizes how different Montag is from nearly everyone else. Even something programmed specifically to do nothing but kill knows that he is different, and might disrupt the firehouse, its home.Class- do the dog's actions toward Montag foreshadow anything?
continuation of my question:I saw Clarisse as the complete opposite of Guy's wife; Clarisse was open to new things and his wife was caught up in the moment and did not know what true happiness is
Chris-I agree with your opinion but i also think that she just doesnt feel comfortable in the world because most people just think she is crazy and wont listen to her like Guy did.Also I think other people know of the old world they just choose to ignore it, or the government made a deal with them to not talk about it.
Class- How come after Guy's wife attempted sucide she doesn't remember ever trying anything or taking the whole bottle of the sleep medicine?
Silvana- I think that they are like headphones that broadcast straight into her head.
MirandaIt could be but the firemen described it like it had six legs and bug-like eyes.
BryanBut if those books have to be destyed, how were they read to know this stuff.
ChrisfI believe other people do know about how the world was, but now the are old and people move to fast to care about what they have to say. The people who remember how the world was are the people who are arrested as insane or for keeping books. I think that is why this society is so afraid of books because they hold what the world was like. Maybe the government knows that if those people learn about how the world was, they will try to question society. All oppresion is based on education, so all totalitarian governments keep their people uneducated and uninformed.
CLASS-Why exactly did she take the sleeping pills again? A specific reason?
Ryan- does it make sense to think that someone gave it to her, like they were trying to kill her? Maybe it was the same person who programmed the mechanical dog to attack Montag.
Josh-yes, but they describe it as a dog. So that was my reply.
Silvana -The seashell things in the guys ear are like the things in harrison berguron that won't let them keep a train of thought.
Kate-I totally see the differences between Clarisse and his wife. I also think she is living life to the fullest while she just wants a new 'wall'. Clarisse also doesnt seem to focused on technology.
CLASS-New QuestionIf this country is so controlled why do so many people die?
Silvana- I don't know, messages? It seemed like they were talking about the radio, so maybe it was just like the town's radio and daily broadcasts.
Class-What would be the motive to destroying all of the books? Is there a government regulating what happens in society?
Class- I think this society is an extension of our world today. I think the author of this book is trying to warn of us of what happens when the world moves to fast and we become to obssessed with what is practical and what is faster. Everything loses its meaning.
ChrisI think it is because they really are tired of living in such a uniform, controlled world.
BryanSo is that why she can't sleep? Because she has those sounds going off? Is that why she takes sleeping pills?
Emily- Yes I think that could be but isn't the hound programmed to attack Guy just a suspicion because nobody else at the firehouse thought he is a target. Also, why wouldn't they wait and attack Guy if thats who their are tryng to get to?
Class- does it make sense to think that Montag's wife was given the medicine in an attempt to kill her? Like the same person who did that was also the one to program the dog to attack Montag.
Chris -I think that people keep dying because they are challenging the system and the government does not like it so they put down the thoughts and rebellion.
Alex-I think the governments motive was to control the people and that is just the way they see fit. Also books contain history and it seems like they dont want history being tallked about.
Silvana -I have not thought of that yet, but it could be.
EmilyThat seems silly to listen to the radio all the time. Though it does fit her personality what with the tv walls and the acotr activity.
Class- Why do you think the book lies to the firemen in their rule books, stating that Benjamin Franklin was a firefighter? I think they did this so that the firemen would never question their jobs and their society by making them believe that this is the way it always was.
Alex-It seems like they are destroying the books because they don't want the people to think. They don't want other ideas and opinions out in the world. They are afraid that if the people knew about things they would go about and try to change the government. As well if something is published, it can become proof.
I don't think that the seashell things are thought-destroying. It never mentions that, and Bradbury wasn't the one who wrote Harrison Bergeron.
Alex-I think the reason behind the burning of books is exactly what you said, to regulate society. If they read these books of different ideas, which may cause uproar and chaos.
Chris-Nothing can stop people from dieing. That is just the way of life.
Class- What exactly is the Hound?
Melissa-I think they lied because they dont want people to learn about the past, for the same reason they burn the books. I guess they feel something about the history is bad.
Silvana -If all you hear throughout your life is one side of a political issue, what are you more likely to believe. The radios are there just to keep them on the same train of thought its just another way to regulate their society.
Emily-I disagree, I think the point of the seashell things is to almost erase memory. After she took those out she couldn't remember anything from the night before.
Melissa-I don't think the book is lieing to them. Its telling the truth, but probably they didn't know the motive behind Franklins burning of books. Even if they did know the motive, Franklins reasons were most likely different from the governments.
KatieThat could be true but these people are attepting suicide.
EmilyM,I agree that the seashells aren't thought destroying, they are more destracting. montag's wife has the seashells in her ear 24-7 so nothing in the real world can touch her. She can not think, question, care, or love because all that matters to her is what she hears in the seashells.
Ryan- I think that the Hound is a mechanical dog designed with special technologies that can be programmed. The firemen program it to kill the mice and cats in the firehouse, although I don't know why.
Bryan So do you think she was forced to put those in or was it by choice?
I saw the seashells as just some earplugs Guy's wife wore to help her sleep because she must have sleeping problems
Emily-It said that the fireman wanted the hound to chase the cats and mice for entertinment.
Melissa- Okay, what you're saying makes sense.Class- Why did Montag marry his wife if he does not love her? Did he once? Are people chosen to marry other people in their society?
KateI thought that they were the reason for her sleeping problem.
Emily- Yes, but why would they create something that is made to kill?
monickKI'm farely sure Benjamin Franklin was not a firefighter and he deffinetly did not burn books. That makes it a lie. The firemen think people have always burned books, so they don't think to question their actions and society.
Emily-Do you mean like "The Giver"?
Emily-I think that Guy married his wife because people in the society are expected to marry so they didnt think of love
Katie-That is true, but the amount of dealth they experience seems way over the top. She had multiple friends being killed in a year, and that seems unrealistic to me, and it seems that if it so controlled why are there so many dealths.
class- have you noticed how often the author has refered to candles. What do you think is the symbolism behind the candle.
CLASS-Okay as odd as this sounds, why do you think his name is Guy because that seems a little impersonal and it doesnt show spunk or describe personality?
EmilyOr maybe with the little feelings they can feel, they imagine it to be love.
Ryan- I think Miranda said that they did it for entertainment.Miranda- I have not read The Giver. What is your connection?
Monick -Everybody wants to stay i power as long as possible, the burning of the books is a way to regulate how much people learn it sets them all at the same level and they can not get smarter unless they read and use there reading for thought. Even the smartest people can get distracted though, the radios are like watching tv while doing your homework, you can not concentrate so you are not turning in your best work you could have done.
Emily-The Giver was aabout a controlled society where people were assigned jobs, did not produce their own children (were assigned children), and were assigned spouses.
KatieI think his name is Guy because it make it sound like what is happening to him could happen to anyone.
Melissa-What if you were someone else who didn't know much about Benjamin Franklin. You would question if Franklins was a firefighter, but you wouldn't be exactly sure if he did burn books or not. You would accept it as the truth, but you would probably wonder if he reason for burning books differed from the current firefighters in the book. But I do agree on what you say about how the firemen believe they have always burned books and don't question their actions.
Miranda- Why do you think the Hound was created for entertainment? Do you think they have a different reason for it?
Monick-I agree, that is what Michelle is talking about right now, with Communist China.
Emily-So far, it seems as if the humans of the future have almost programmed themselves to do what is easiest, or most logical. They seem to have a routine in their lives, which they don't question.
KatieHis name might not even mean anything. I know a few boys named Guy. It might be just a name.
Chris-I do see how this may seem unrealistic but some people do loose a lot of people. I think it could also show how the governments plan doesnt work and how it doesnt create peace.
New Topic: As the inner group is saying why do you think CHina is trying to control what the people hear and learn?
Miranda- Yes, that's what I mean. In the beginning, he realizes he doesn't really like her, or really love her. That made me wonder why they married at all.
Ryan-They didn't create the hound for entertainment, I just stated that that is what the firmen use it for.
chrisf-The society is controlled, but the world they want to create through that control is flawed. They want whatever is faster, whatever is more realistic, and no one cares about anyone anymore. The death portrayed in this book reminds me of the demorilization caused by video games and movies. Children today view violence constantly. The people in this book are taught that destruction is good. They have no books or history to question their controlled society.
RyanI think the hound was created for a different reason like chasing down people who try and run from the firemen.
inner circlei think janie is making a really good point in the inner circle. people want to see distruction it makes them feel better about their own lives. thats why people watch news. and with the fire thing. we like fire its human nature. we like to see distruction. there is a lot of violence in the book
Bryan-I think the reason behind China's control is beacause China is so densely populated that they feel the only way to keep peace is having limited freedoms.
Emily-Someone said earlier that they are expected to marry in this society, so they don't really think of love more as the duty they are filling to their society.
Bryan-I've researched China before and it is just what they do to try to control society. They have a lot of rules becasue with such a big population they need a lot of boundries or it would be chaos.
Alex- So he married her because it was simple? Why do you think then that it bothers him after meeting Clarisse that he doesn't like her that much?
Class- to me the hound is symbolizing the society in this book and the firemen in general. They are taught by society to think only what they are told to think, in this case savagry.
BryanChina is trying to control what the people see and hear because if you control the media you control the people. It makes people keep faith in the government if they are uninformed about their government's actions.
Chris -Is it, or could it be because the government is scared of giving the people an idea on which to spur on a rebellion?
Bryan-The China govenment doesn't want people to know what the government has done in the past. If people knew what did happen, they would try and change the country. Rebellions would probably happen more often, and the less people know the better for the government. They want to limit and restrict their people.
KatieI agree with you, with the name guy, it still is a real name as silvana said, but it shows the indifference, and blandness he was/is.
Miranda- Ok, but do you think there is a reason?Josh- I think that may be why, I also heard the inner circle talk about the violence. Everyone is violent in the book. They love violence, I think that may be the reason for the Hound.
Elijah-I agree, he is just another "guy" in society.
class- people agree to live in a oppressed society because with freedom comes responsibility and danger. It is so easy to give up free chose in exchange for security. Most of those people don't even know what it means to be free, which is why books are so dangerous, because books would show those people what the society is missing.
Ryan- Do I think there is a reason besides entertainment?
Edmond -I agree they are taking away the peoples freedom of thought and speech and by putting down the suttle changes and only presenting the people with what the government wants them to hear it becomes a dictatorship, that the people can not recognize, because they don't know better.
Chris-I finally get what you see about deaths!! If they live in the perfect world whats with all the violence. I get it now!
ElijahSo with the name being so bland like you said, does it mean that this could be anyone? But its just one guy this time. So could there be more?
Bryan-That may be part of the issue. If there are so many people, and all these people are rebelling they would have utter chaos. So, I think that China's style of government is to stop rebellion and control possible chaos.
Monick -That is exactly what I think is happening the government leader is scared of losing his power!
Class-Why do you think so many lights are off in the houses? Its just like the pedestrian. Is it in fear?
Miranda- No I don't that's why I keep asking because if there isn't then it's just sick. To create something programmed to kill for fun? I don't think it's a good thing.
I agree with ChrisF. Knowledge and freedom can cause danger. These people value security over freedom. I saw the same idea in The Pedestrian, where the people are afraid to live their homes, to accept the world with its dangers and opprotunity. They live in the dark because they fear the light.
Kate-I do think it is similar to the Pedestrian. It is also just showing that Guy and Clarisse are different. Also how all the lights are on in Clarisse's house shows that they have the 'light' of knowledge.
Kate-I think the lights are off not because of fear but because they are so used to this way of living that, that is how they live. I don't think that they are scared that is just how it is in their society.
EveryoneWho is the leader? Everyone keeps saying the rulers or something. Okay well what type of government is even going on?
Ryan-Of course it isn't a good thing.I'm sure from the scene where Montag describes the hound sprining on a cat or mouse and a needle retracting from its paws and injecting the mouse with some kind of lethal tranquilizer. So it's obvious purpose is to kill. But WHAT exactly.
Class- What do you think Clarisse represents in this story?
I agree with what Janie is saying about the Hound. There are people who believe the books are precious and feel anger when the firemen burn the books. The hound is there for protection for the firemen.
Chris -Good point, but the chaos is still rooted into the government. There wouldn't be chaos if the governemnt had not made those bad choices which modern people living in China do not even know about.
Inner Circle- I believe the Hound growls at Guy because Guy is becomming a danger to the controlled society, like the knowledge in this book.
Chris-Well why is it "just how they live"? Katie-That is a great way to put it: "the light of knowledge"
Silvana-I dont know who the leader is but i think that the government is kind of like that of Harrison Bergeon and the Pedestirian.
Miranda- That's what I'm wondering I heard a comment that it could have been sent to go after people who try to run, but it is very scary thought to me especially if you listen in on the inner circle.
melissaI agree! That was just the start too! Later, when he takes a book, he really is a danger to it all.
Melissa-I agree, why else would the houng want to harm him? Did someone program the hound? Or does the Hound think for itself to an extent? Is it programmed to indentify the threats and dangers to society?
Bryan-That may be true, and they wouldn't have this issue if they would have never made these decisions. The government did make these disicions though, and now the are stuck. If they make changes there will be chaos, so I think they have to keep this style of government to keep order.
Ryan-Yes, I think that the hound's soul purpose is to catch people who try to run.
katieSee thats the problem. Every one keeps talking about the government when we don't even know how it works in this book.
Miranda-If the hound is programmed to identify the threats and dangers, then why don't the other firemen consider Guy a threat when he brings up that the hound was growling at him?
Class- I see a connection to Lord of the Flies with the obsession of burning books. Jack represents the classic, oppresive, totalitarian government. Piggy represents wisdom, so it makes sense that Jack would want to destroy Piggy as the government in this society wants to destroy books. Two factors support an oppressive government, fear and unreasoning.
Inner circle/Class/Silvana-Based on what i have been talking about with Silvana, What is the government and how does it work?
Monick-Because the hound, if you look at it, is a part of the controlling government, and the firmen are just citizens who are being controlled. they don't even think that guy could be a threat.
Sivana-I think the author did that on purpose. Kept the system of the government in the dark. Letting people guess how it is run.
KatieYeah thats what I've been going at and thinking about.
Chris -We see America as a great country, but we have gone through many different social struggles. Look at the Cival War, America would not be America if we did not resolve slavery through a very bloody battle.
Silvana-I don't think the government is as extreme as the system of ruling in Harrison Bergeron. In Fahrenheit 451 I think the people have accepted subtle changes and have slowly evolved as a society, to live according to a system.
MonickBut why make us guess?
Miranda- That's a good thought with it prorammed to go after the threats to their society. Guy has deeper and different thoughts and could potentially threaten how the society is run.
Monick- the firmen believe the Hound can only be programed by them with amino acids. However, they do see Guy as a bit of a threat. The firechief did question Guy several times, asking him if he owns any books, if he is guilty of something. The society is based on mistrust.
Ryan-Exactly my point.
Silvana-My opinion is just that the author wants to show how people had adapted to the government, and once major changes are made bring in how the government was set up or ran.
Bryan-Very true, we did have to go through many struggles, but i don't think China wants to go through these struggles. We already know that China is not a very strong government, and I think that if they had these struggles they wouldn't know how to deal with the issues.
Melissa-I guessed I missed some of that when reading, how the chief was questioning him mutltiple times.
Inner circle- The society in this book is not the opposite of our world. The author wrote this book to reveal the parallels to our world, what happens when the flaws of our society run away.